Firearm Tracing

[ugimports]

I have a customer / friend that recently had 3 firearms come through ATF as Trace Requests. I pinged him asking if he recently lost some firearms. He replied in a confusing manner.. Apparently he still had all 3 firearms in his safe.. He has since been contacted by ATF and had to send them photo/visual proof he indeed still had the firearms.

Anyone here ever involved in one or many? How/why would this ATF trace occurred if those firearms didn't show up at a crime scene or otherwise be reported stolen and recovered?

They didn't of course tell him what was going on. These 3 trace requests were over the course of several days as well. They weren't 3 serial numbers in 1 request. The most recent was today and the other 2 were within the past 2 weeks. I thought maybe someone got the info from posts on the 'net, but it sounded like he's never posted photos of these firearms anywhere..

[rromeo]

Were these purchased new by him, or used?

[ugimports]

2 were new PSA products purchased from PSA (one from 2015 one from 2016)
1 was a Saiga purchased from Buds Gun Shop (from 2013)

Of note on the PSA 2016 run (the trace today) it had 2 other lowers in the same transaction (5 items total), but only 1 SN was being queried from the batch of 3 lowers.

ETA: not sure if this could be relevant at all, but I believe his brother works for the FBI (I don't know what he does or if he still works for that agency).

[Hateca]

Well when I was working LEO ATF would not do a trace request unless the gun was somehow connected to a crime. They didn’t just trace numbers for the hell of it. There was a procedure for a trace and cops needed to have the actual firearm in hand.

[ugimports]

That's what I thought.. however, in this case all 3 were still in his possession which is the big mystery.. And even if someone forged serial numbers say on an 80% build..it seems wildly unlikely that 3 random "made up" serial numbers all came from the same person.

[Jess B. Guy]

Sounds goofy. I can see a records check (trace) on a gun if ATF thinks the shipper, wholesaler, or retail licensee is falsifying records. Verifies the alleged purchaser actually has the gun. ATF used to have a "forward trace" program on AR types under similar circumstances.

(Retired ATF - 30 years)

[ugimports]

At first I thought maybe he had sole these particular items and that person lost them...that's when I found out chatting with him that he actually still had them all.. goofy indeed.... i'm wondering if he'll ever find out what triggered the trace..and now i'm curious if i'll see any more...

[Hateca]

At first I thought maybe he had sole these particular items and that person lost them...that's when I found out chatting with him that he actually still had them all.. goofy indeed.... i'm wondering if he'll ever find out what triggered the trace..and now i'm curious if i'll see any more...

He may never know. Normally they will not tell you the reason for the trace.

[Hateca]

Sounds goofy. I can see a records check (trace) on a gun if ATF thinks the shipper, wholesaler, or retail licensee is falsifying records. Verifies the alleged purchaser actually has the gun. ATF used to have a "forward trace" program on AR types under similar circumstances.

(Retired ATF - 30 years)

Funny you say that years ago I received about 10 AR lowers All with sequential serial number. About two years later that company went out of business. I get a trace for that shipment receiving date but with one serial number way off of what I received and did not have. Explained the details to the ATF girl on the phone and you could almost hear in her voice she wasn’t surprised. She wouldn’t tell me what the deal was but she did say I wouldn’t hear from them again about this, and never did.

[waygeekierthanu]

I had this happen to a customer once and what had happened was they were all Glocks and he had changed out the slides with custom stuff for optics mounts and things. he sold those slides on eBay to somebody doing p80 builds, that person, apparently, was either illegally selling them or they were using them in a crime or pick a thing. When that person got picked up the serial number on the slide is what they traced. So my customer had the frames but not the slides his slides were used for something that the ATF didn't like apparently.

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[ugimports]

I had this happen to a customer once and what had happened was they were all Glocks and he had changed out the slides with custom stuff for optics mounts and things. he sold those slides on eBay to somebody doing p80 builds, that person, apparently, was either illegally selling them or they were using them in a crime or pick a thing. When that person got picked up the serial number on the slide is what they traced. So my customer had the frames but not the slides his slides were used for something that the ATF didn't like apparently.

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I can see that happening, especially when some people will use the slide SN and not the frame...for ARs/AKs not so much given where the SNs are..

[waygeekierthanu]

I can see that happening, especially when some people will use the slide SN and not the frame...for ARs/AKs not so much given where the SNs are..

Of course, I was just giving one example. I realize his were long guns but it was definitely a fun little how did this happen question with our customer. I'm sure like all of you we get a pile of trace requests. It's just that this customer is an extremely good customer and it was multiple guns so I was really curious.

Fun fact, we have the number saved in our phone book for the ATF national Trace center so we know when they are calling. I now answer the phone as second Amendment zone Glock tracing department, what glock can I help you trace today? It's almost always a glock and it always gets the agent to laugh so I figure it's a good start [emoji23]

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[ugimports]

Of course, I was just giving one example. I realize his were long guns but it was definitely a fun little how did this happen question with our customer. I'm sure like all of you we get a pile of trace requests. It's just that this customer is an extremely good customer and it was multiple guns so I was really curious.

Fun fact, we have the number saved in our phone book for the ATF national Trace center so we know when they are calling. I now answer the phone as second Amendment zone Glock tracing department, what glock can I help you trace today? It's almost always a glock and it always gets the agent to laugh so I figure it's a good start [emoji23]

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Interesting stat.. we almost get no glocks traced..i guess people steal different stuff up here

[Chevy2Nova]

I purchased a Wilson Combat pistol from the stockade and had taken some up close pictures of the pistol with my brothers camera. Fast forward quite a few months and my brother lost that camera at Coachella. One day walking into a restaurant I got a call from someone at the stockade asking if I knew where my Wilson combat pistol was. I was quite confused and said that to the best of my knowledge it was secure in my safe at home. They proceeded to ask if I had lost a camera. It then hit me that it was my brother who had lost his camera at Coachella. The employee at the stockade passed on the information for the person who had the camera, which turned out to be in Hawaii. I passed the information on to my brother and they ended up sending him his camera. There were no pictures on the camera indicating anything about the stockade, so I don't know how all that played out. Somehow they found out who the owner of the pistol was and where it was purchased. There were all kinds of othe random pictures on the camera at the time.

[edgerly779]

^^^ That is good news. There is a god and it is not a woman. Amazing that occured. I got a stolen firearm back from 1977 from a pic in a banger possession in 1984 with the serial number of my S & W in it. Phoenix PD got the guy and my gun in a sting after 2 months of paperwork I drove to Phoenix and picked it up. It is in my safe now.