Need info on the identity of suspects of a crime I reported

[bigboarstopper]

So I catch 3 trucks spotlighting (poaching) on my ranch Saturday night. I chase the 3 trucks down where they pulled over on the side of the county road (still in front of my ranch) to put their rifles and spotlights in the tool boxes (hide them).

They attempt to play dumb while I take pics of their license plates. Finally one says “I’m sorry” a half dozen times (admission of guilt).

My option now is to hold them at gunpoint or let them go. I let them go. I have their plate #s. Call up the warden and give the plate #s. Warden won’t tell me who they are? They know who I am. I ID’d myself as the owner of the ranch they attempted to poach. They know where my wife, my child and myself live. They know where I make my living. I on the other hand know nothing about who will be shooting my cattle or setting my ranch on fire.

If you live in town and find someone prowling around your back yard at 2am, you chase them to their vehicle and take down their license plate and report it to police they find them and arrest them. Victim gets to know who is arrested. In the country people get to ride around your property with guns and the game wardens don’t arrest them and they won’t even tell you who they were.

[eta34]

Oh.

[WOODY2]

It would be fair to assume that since you got the plates and all, they now believe LE and DFG and you know where to find them. Unless weird things start happening that they are more on edge than you?

[71MUSTY]

This is actually a perfect example of why they strongly suggest you leave confronting bad guys to the professionals.

By confronting them you not only put yourself in harms way but potentially put your family at risk also.

Just saying.

[micro911]

I don't think the LE is obligated to tell you who they are. And, if it is a misdemeanor occurred not at the LE's presence, you will have to make a citizen's arrest and LE take the custody. You will have to go to the court to testify.

[bigboarstopper]

This is actually a perfect example of why they strongly suggest you leave confronting bad guys to the professionals.

By confronting them you not only put yourself in harms way but potentially put your family at risk also.

Just saying.

What option do I have? I don’t live in the city. Sheriff isnt coming anytime soon. I didn’t know they were poachers anymore than I knew they were pulling a home invasion robbery on my aunts house on the other side of the ranch. You saying I should call the SO and wait an hour plus to see if aunt Elizabeth is alive?

[bigboarstopper]

I don't think the LE is obligated to tell you who they are. And, if it is a misdemeanor occurred not at the LE's presence, you will have to make a citizen's arrest and LE take the custody. You will have to go to the court to testify.

[pacrat]

I don't think the LE is obligated to tell you who they are. And, if it is a misdemeanor occurred not at the LE's presence, you will have to make a citizen's arrest and LE take the custody. You will have to go to the court to testify.

^^^THAT^^^

http://www.criminaldefense909.com/poaching-criminal-defense-attorney.html

Punishment & Sentence for Poaching

Both poaching and unlawful possession of game animal or creature are charged as misdemeanors. If found guilty of most FG 2000 - 2002 charges the defendant may face up to one hundred eighty (180) days in the county jail.

Generally just a "cite release" offense.

If you are starting to get the impression that criminals have more rights than hard working, taxpaying, law abiding citizen property owners. You got it right.

[Samuelx]

playing devil's advocate here:

IF you only spoke with a Warden over the phone, are you sure you got a Warden and not someone (non-sworn) who answers the phone? If it was a Warden, how would he/she be able to confirm you were who you said you were? If they were unable to confirm your identity or legitimacy of your report, would it make sense for them to release registration information to anyone calling in a license plate? Do you know what their agency's policy(ies) are regarding giving out information? Even if they could give out information, how do you KNOW that the plates were legitimate (e.g. not swapped or stolen, or the vehicles were not stolen, etc) and how would you KNOW that any of the people you saw were in fact the registered owners of those vehicles/license plates? ETC

You should really direct your questions to the person/agency you called...

[bigboarstopper]

playing devil's advocate here:

IF you only spoke with a Warden over the phone, are you sure you got a Warden and not someone (non-sworn) who answers the phone? If it was a Warden, how would he/she be able to confirm you were who you said you were? If they were unable to confirm your identity or legitimacy of your report, would it make sense for them to release registration information to anyone calling in a license plate? Do you know what their agency's policy(ies) are regarding giving out information? Even if they could give out information, how do you KNOW that the plates were legitimate (e.g. not swapped or stolen, or the vehicles were not stolen, etc) and how would you KNOW that any of the people you saw were in fact the registered owners of those vehicles/license plates? ETC

You should really direct your questions to the person/agency you called...

Thinking way too much into this. Called dispatch, late afternoon of next day received call from gamewarden. Tells me he hasn’t done anything. Basically says he isn’t going to do anything. Warden seems content with me exposing myself to armed men without follow up or writing a report. Game wardens continue to represent themselves as 3rd rate LE. Leaves me with falice in hand

[Samuelx]

Maybe call the county sheriff's office?

[CBR_rider]

Couple of things:

1) Sounds like there is either a lazy or overworked game warden in your area. I frankly wouldn't expect him to do anything over the phone; but considering one of their main jobs is (generally) hunting/fishing regulations type crimes whether or not he cared about the whole trespassing thing I would assume a large group of poachers would at least have his attention.

I would hope if he was too busy with "real" work (not sitting in the office or whatever he may be doing) he would tell you that. I had no problems telling people that it took me hours to get to their low priority call because I was stuck on a stabbing/shooting/chase/whatever if they complained about the response time. I tried to do it with tact; but I wasn't about to let someone assume I didn't care about their problem/trash my agency/work ethic when I could try to tactfully and respectfully inform them of what was really happening in my work area. Whether they cared to listen or not was a whole 'nother animal.

2) I get your feelings regarding these folks/their activity on your land; but the facts of the law are that the crimes they *could* be charged with are NOT felonies it seems. Thus, the prior comments about procedures for infraction/misdemeanor crimes are likely accurate. But as has already been stated, I would contact your SO and ask to at least get some kind of incident report. That way if things continue there is a report somewhere with plates and your description of what happened.

3) Don't expect to be given DMV information (especially over the phone) unless it is allowed to remain in a police report and you go through the proper channels to get it. While folks don't always follow the law in that regards; I know of several who were terminated and criminally convicted (if applicable) of misusing government database information.

Plus, as has already been stated, the DMV information itself is probably not that important in the scheme of things. How do you know the plates/vehicles are not stolen or borrowed? Which of the yokels who owned it was driving? What are you going to do to them; you are fairly certain they were "just" poaching (which again, I am very sympathetic about... having ones property trespassed/used like that is very violating and I'm not trying to downplay that one bit) so why do you need to know *right now* who they are/where they live? Is it worth it in the dumb State of CA to go "talk" to them or harass them? Like you said.. they know where you live already.

[pacrat]

OPsaid:

If you live in town and find someone prowling around your back yard at 2am, you chase them to their vehicle and take down their license plate and report it to police they find them and arrest them.

Unlikely outcome, unless intruders committed a felony during the trespass.

Monterey Cnty has approx 250 sworn deputies on MCSD. But likely only one or two wardens. Play the odds, call the cops. Might want to mention to dispatch that you "think" you heard shots fired. And "suspect" trespassers "may be" shooting your livestock.

Even in CrapOfornia that is still a "grand theft" felony. And as you probably already know. Rustling is on the rise in Ca.

Sadly you are stuck in a legislative/voter created hard spot between what cops are allowed to do. And what citizens feel they should do.

And no, I'm not a LEO. Just another citizen that has seen this once great state become ever increasingly pro criminal...... and anti law abiding citizen.

[IrishJoe3]

1st, for property crimes I'd call the sheriff department. There are only a handful of wardens in the state and they may not even be in your county. Property crimes is what the sheriff department does. It is not what Fish and Wildlife does. What you did was the equivalent of calling the highway patrol office and telling them you saw someone speeding.

2nd. 'chasing down' and confronting several vehicles of armed individuals is incredibly stupid and puts yourself in a predicament if the situation escalated.

3rd. Make sure you actually understand trespass laws. Generally trespass is when someone enters private property and refuses to leave (any deputies here have more experience than me in this?). As a land owner you won't like this, but trespassing on open countryside is a very minor offense.

4th. Everything you described is AT WORST a misdemeanor. And almost all misdemeanors are at worst a ticket. And in your scenario, a LEO couldn't even issue a ticket.

5th. No way in hell would I provide you with vehicle owner information. You're not entitled to that information nor legally able to obtain it through me.

6th. Hold at gunpoint? For at best a shaky misdemeanor? Nothing you described is worth getting shot over or arrested for brandishing, which is a far more serious crime than anything you described.

[IrishJoe3]

. Play the odds, call the cops. Might want to mention to dispatch that you "think" you heard shots fired. And "suspect" trespassers "may be" shooting your livestock.

.

Absolutely do NOT do this. Your call is recorded, and will sound great to a jury when you're being sued/charged for the consequences of your lie.