How do LEO's view AW's in the general population?

[bubbapug1]

How do LEO's view AW's with bullet buttons in the general population?

Do LEO's see guns as a contributing factor in overall crime, or do you think gun control will just keep guns out of the hands of non criminals?

[Jonathan Doe]

As long as the firearm is California compliant, the firearms is no different than any other handguns, rifles or shotguns.

The criminals will use anything to get their job done. Guns happened to be a easy tool for them. They will get it anyway they can whether there are gun control law or not. There are enough guns out there already.

[1911su16b870]

IMO the OLL and bullet button phenomenon is a wonderfull example how ingeneous calguns members and those who configure their rifles legally are. I do not think (and hopefull) that we will see any crimes commited with compliant AWs.

Also IMO Criminals will get guns to commit crimes irregardless of the laws and controls but in place.

[desmark6]

Look at the last 2 shootings where multiple officers were killed with assault weapons, kinda proves that bans/laws/restrictions don't do much to keep bad people from being bad.

If you are a law abiding/sane person I have no issues with you owning whatever ya like to shoot. Imagine if there hadn't have been a civilian to lend assault weapons to LAPD during the infamous north hollywood shootout!

[scombs263]

Punish the BAD guys severly...I mean it, hammer them so they will not do it again...Regular law abiding citizens have the right to bear arms and should not be penalized for crooks behavior...

[Rogue187]

I see we kinda missed the big stickied thread up top that says:
READ THESE RULES BEFORE POSTING

Otherwise you would have seen this part of the rules:
3. This is NOT a place to air your dislike of the Government, Law Enforcement, LEOs in general or the law in general. Doing so here will result in losing access to this forum.

[Grumpyoldretiredcop]

Many LEOs I know are mystified by the AW provisions - that's why I used to get calls to ID weapons. I can't speak for other LEOs, I can only say that if it's not illegal, I didn't have a problem with it. Now that I'm retired and have time, I'm building a rifle - and it'll have to have a Raddlock on it (unless I decide to go MMG/featureless).

I've never thought that guns were a contributing factor in crime. Criminals use whatever is at hand to do their deeds with. If they don't have a gun, then a knife, screwdriver or a big rock will do. Gun control only works on honest people, not criminals.

I agree with Rogue197 - criminals should do their whole time. No parole, no probation. I'd go a step farther. Jails and prisons should be harsh places that you don't want to go back to, not "gray bar hotels" with "3 hots and a cot", commissary, a well-appointed exercise yard, and programs to pass the time. All cells should be solitary so prison gangs can't play their games. Don't like it? Then don't come to jail!

How the ACLU would howl... but I bet the recidivism rate would go down.

[Ron-Solo]

As a current LEO who was attacked 20 years ago with a AK47, I still don't blame the AW. The 3 guys who opened fire on my partner and I were hard core criminals who STOLE their guns from honest people. Two were on parole and were previously criminally deported aliens who had no business in this country.

Since I learned about OLL, bullet buttons, etc, I encourage every law abiding citizen to build one and I point them in the right direction to do so.

During one of my assignments there was a legal shooting area that I patrolled. I had many great conversations with hundreds of gun owners, who often asked me to shoot their guns. I also encountered many thugs who had no business with a gun and couldn't follow a rule if their life depended on it. Many of those went to jail, where they belonged and can't prey on the law abiding gun owners anymore.

I disagree with the current CA gun laws, but those are the ground rules until we can get them changed. Keep building OLL's within the law and pay attention to who you vote for.

Support you local OLL friendly dealers, buy from them when you can rather than the internet if the prices are close. We need them!

Ron

[Synergy]

Many LEOs are ill informed. I'm a fireman and went into my local police station, while I was on duty in my uniform. I saw a LEO magazine on the counter talking about .223 rifles for patrol duty. It had the AR's, HK 416, Mini 14 etc... I showed the pic of the AR to the Lt. and asked if I had this what would you do?

He said we would take you in.

I said "What if I am California legal" We will still take you in, run you and the gun. I have the PC in my gun bag explaining the legality. His statement blew my mind. "Thats OK we will find something to nail you with!"

Now I don't know if he was just trying to be cavalier since I was a round-a-bout coworker. That statement is just wrong.

[BigDogatPlay]

I too used to get asked to "check out" weapons on the street because I was "the expert". Everyone knew I knew about guns. And I was constantly mystified by the intricacies of California AW law. I wish that I had had the flowchart five or ten years ago, I'd probably have more hair from not scratching my head so much.

I never felt like I had anything to fear from a law abiding person who owned a firearm. Just as working LEOs today have nothing to fear from me. I'm building an OLL with BB and features. When I get done with that I want to start on a featureless with some form of compliant stock and make a racegun out of it.

Semi auto is semi auto is semi auto, no matter how many rounds it holds or what it fires. They are all mechanically the same. If the anti's ever figure that out, we're probably done for sure. So long as they continue to focus on cosmetic issues, and so long as we have creative people on our side who can design and manufacture parts that keep us compliant, then I'm all for it.

Keeping guns out of criminal hands is easy, actually. Keep violent crime felons locked away for ever. Turn out the check kiters,con men and white collar types and use every available bed for violent felons and baby rapers.

Pretty simple, really.

[bubbapug1]

It sounds like LEO's see a lot of bad guys who have no respect for the gun laws...or any other law. I would like to thank thos ein the field for taking on the dealing with the dregs of society on all of our behalf. There are some of us, proably most of us, who do appreciate the job being done. I just wish you had more resources at times...and less second guessing for sure.

I wonder what recommendations you would give to lawmakers to decrease the likelihood a repeat offender gets his hands on a weapon.

Gurmpy states "I agree with Rogue197 - criminals should do their whole time. No parole, no probation. I'd go a step farther. Jails and prisons should be harsh places that you don't want to go back to, not "gray bar hotels" with "3 hots and a cot", commissary, a well-appointed exercise yard, and programs to pass the time. All cells should be solitary so prison gangs can't play their games. Don't like it? Then don't come to jail!"

I think I agree with that statement, but I am not sure if harshness helps or would just holding guys in longer until their hormones cooled off help even more????

I watch the gangland shows on the history channel and I am mystified on how the prisons can be so loosely run as to let so much stuff get in and out...is it really a matter of ACLU folks prying open the bars based on cruel and unreasonable punishment arguments? This stuff has been hashed out in the courts for decades now, but it seems most criminal types are criminals forever once they head down that route...based on a proclivity for violence and mental illness of some sort...is that what you see in the field? Can you spot a criminal type quickly or are some more adept at fitting in than others?

As to the bullet button...I can see that a bullet button would really slow down a shooter intent on mass murder...in contests where folks use a 22LR AR it slows them donw at least two seconds for a mag change over a normal mag...I hate to say and, and will suffer a lot of grief for saying it, but I can see some wisdom in the BB for making mag changes slower on some guns...not that a IPDA guy copuldn't just ravage a room in a few seconds, but the normal run of the mill derainged shooter just doesn't strike me as a contest trained individual.

[jafount]

I see we kinda missed the big stickied thread up top that says:
READ THESE RULES BEFORE POSTING

Otherwise you would have seen this part of the rules:
3. This is NOT a place to air your dislike of the Government, Law Enforcement, LEOs in general or the law in general. Doing so here will result in losing access to this forum.

Wow...did I miss something? I'm not seeing anything here that would be in violation of this rule.

As an aside, given that I am no longer pushing around a patrol car I'll give a different perspective...

I never thought twice about 15 round magazines, possessing an AR 15 or waiting periods. Now, I have to think about bullet buttons, waiting periods and the frustration of not being able to legally possess 15 round magazines. Overall, if you're a normal productive citizen which is pretty obvious at first contact, I could care less if you have a firearm.

As for AW's specifically, an AW is something, at least in my opinion that someone uses against someone else. It's NOT something that has a pistol grip and detachable magazine.

As a side note, Synergy's example is somewhat scary. It's so very easy to get jaded as an LEO so it's important to maintain your perspective. A fireman with an AR 15 is NOT the guy you need to concern yourself with.

[jafount]

As to the bullet button...I can see that a bullet button would really slow down a shooter intent on mass murder...in contests where folks use a 22LR AR it slows them donw at least two seconds for a mag change over a normal mag...I hate to say and, and will suffer a lot of grief for saying it, but I can see some wisdom in the BB for making mag changes slower on some guns...not that a IPDA guy copuldn't just ravage a room in a few seconds, but the normal run of the mill derainged shooter just doesn't strike me as a contest trained individual.

As opposed to leveling crowds of people with some 00 buck shot from a good old fashioned scattergun. I mean you could just keep going and going if you're a decent combat loader.

[CaliTheKid]

I just bought an AR with a bullet button today so I'd say that pretty much sums up my view on them.

I think gun control does nothing to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. I think that law abiding gun owners who allow their guns to be stolen put guns into the hands of criminals.

[bubbapug1]

Good point calithekid..I have two solid safes epoxied into the floor with 1/2 SS anchors, two dogs, a high tech alarm system, and very alert neighbors, what else can I do??