When burglary is not burglary... Advice needed

[jamesonamac]

[Redemption]

My two cents which is only worth about half a penny is that it is indeed a civil matter. Ethically wrong but if he's on the title he has property rights. Out of curiosity, a couple of questions.

1. 2 1/2 years, why hasn't the property matter been handled? Has it been in the courts attempting to be handled? Not positive but if the answer to that is yes then I think it might matter but I could easily be wrong about that.

2. Why is she storing confidential paperwork that has a bearing on their divorce and property issues where her abusive x husband has property rights? Instead of a 3rd party location?

I hope there is no information in there that is going to affect the terms of their divorce, or property dispute...

[RandyD]

In these situations where property has been divided but not set forth in a judgment or court order, I consider it legal malpractice to not at least get a court order detailing that the parties have exclusive use, possession and control of the property until further order of the court. It would take a creative argument to overcome such a request made to the court.

Your fiance needs to file an ex parte hearing in family court demanding the immediate return of her confidential legal files, and to set a motion seeking sanctions on her husband. This is the sort of conduct that the court needs to discourage a party from engaging in, by issuing sanctions.

In my opinion this is burglary. If I was a landlord, and I entered my tenant's residence, and took their personal property, I would consider this to be a burglary.

[naeco81]

I'm not your lawyer and nothing I say here is legal advice.

Is there anything else we can do?
I think she needs to find a better attorney; you need qualified legal help here, not random advice from a forum. As you've been advised by the Sheriff repeatedly, take him off the title. To do that you need a formal court order where a judge signs off on your agreement as Randy mentions above. If you can't expediently get that, moving is perhaps her best option right now. At a minimum she should store her valuables and documents somewhere else. Safe deposit box or at your place. I also think you should pursue the restraining order vigorously. Given that he's been inside the house you may also want to check for hidden cameras or recording devices he left behind. Like I said, moving is probably the best option.

I'm not sure what the law is on entering into a lease without joint consent (edit: seems possible based on quick google), but even if it wasn't kosher a court would have to adjudicate that and you may gain some short term relief by having her lease the house over to you. Once a lease is in effect on the house you gain tenant rights under CA law that limit when a property owner can enter the premises. Read more about CA tenant rights here.

In response he can file a claim of adverse possession with the courts, but like I said it may buy you some time, increase his civil liability, and afford additional legal rights as you personally may be able to file a restraining order against him (in addition to hers) if he enters the property while you are leasing it. It's just a thought but maybe one worth exploring. Be advised, any rent you pay on the property will technically be 50% his, so you should look into this thoroughly and discuss with an attorney before you commit to this plan.


Could we demand to report a crime?
I don't think so, not on the basis of him entering the property. As long as his name is on the title and there is no lease suspending his own property rights he can enter 100% of the property (even partial ownership affords full access rights). Maybe there are some privacy laws related to a finalized divorce that I'm not aware of. Again, you need to speak to an attorney about this stuff - but it is unfortunately true that he is legally allowed to be on the property, just as she is legally allowed to enter the place he's staying (though not anymore if a restraining order is in effect).


Would you agree that it’s only civil, not criminal?
Yes, for reasons cited above; and yes it totally sucks - I'm empathetic to your position 100% just trying to give you objectivity here. It becomes criminal if he violates a restraining order or a judge signs an agreement to her property settlement connected with the divorce and he enters after that. It may be criminal under some vague privacy law that I'm not aware of, but I'd guess that unlikely.

Good luck. Sorry you're both having to deal with this :\

[CBR_rider]

maybe a theft; at best. If it's been 30months, both are still on the title, no R/o's, no court documents indicating what is to happen to the property... I ain't writing a crime report. How would I know it wasn't his stuff in there? And if his attorney has it that will be handled in court.

She needs to get off her butt and get this handled and/or find new counsel

[hunterb]

Your friends are probably all already telling you this: You need a new girlfriend.
Seriously, what makes her so amazing to ignore these OBVIOUS, GLARING, HORRIFYING RED FLAGS?

Just remember that that "Ex" you're complaining about is YOU in the future. Act accordingly.

[irishsig]

Not sure about any of the legal issues but why didn't she change the locks and update the security system?
Especially after the 1st "break-in".

[naeco81]

Your friends are probably all already telling you this: You need a new girlfriend.
Seriously, what makes her so amazing to ignore these OBVIOUS, GLARING, HORRIFYING RED FLAGS?

Just remember that that "Ex" you're complaining about is YOU in the future. Act accordingly.

Wow that's pretty unnecessary.
Sorry if your life sucks but no need to drag the world down with you.
Can't possibly see how any of this relates to his fiancee's character. Grow up.

[RandyD]

I'm not your lawyer and nothing I say here is legal advice.

Is there anything else we can do?
I think she needs to find a better attorney; you need qualified legal help here, not random advice from a forum. As you've been advised by the Sheriff repeatedly, take him off the title. To do that you need a formal court order where a judge signs off on your agreement as Randy mentions above. If you can't expediently get that, moving is perhaps her best option right now. At a minimum she should store her valuables and documents somewhere else. Safe deposit box or at your place. I also think you should pursue the restraining order vigorously. Given that he's been inside the house you may also want to check for hidden cameras or recording devices he left behind. Like I said, moving is probably the best option.

I'm not sure what the law is on entering into a lease without joint consent (edit: seems possible based on quick google), but even if it wasn't kosher a court would have to adjudicate that and you may gain some short term relief by having her lease the house over to you. Once a lease is in effect on the house you gain tenant rights under CA law that limit when a property owner can enter the premises. Read more about CA tenant rights here.

In response he can file a claim of adverse possession with the courts, but like I said it may buy you some time, increase his civil liability, and afford additional legal rights as you personally may be able to file a restraining order against him (in addition to hers) if he enters the property while you are leasing it. It's just a thought but maybe one worth exploring. Be advised, any rent you pay on the property will technically be 50% his, so you should look into this thoroughly and discuss with an attorney before you commit to this plan.


Could we demand to report a crime?
I don't think so, not on the basis of him entering the property. As long as his name is on the title and there is no lease suspending his own property rights he can enter 100% of the property (even partial ownership affords full access rights). Maybe there are some privacy laws related to a finalized divorce that I'm not aware of. Again, you need to speak to an attorney about this stuff - but it is unfortunately true that he is legally allowed to be on the property, just as she is legally allowed to enter the place he's staying (though not anymore if a restraining order is in effect).



Yes, for reasons cited above; and yes it totally sucks - I'm empathetic to your position 100% just trying to give you objectivity here. It becomes criminal if he violates a restraining order or a judge signs an agreement to her property settlement connected with the divorce and he enters after that. It may be criminal under some vague privacy law that I'm not aware of, but I'd guess that unlikely.

Good luck. Sorry you're both having to deal with this :\

There is some good advice in this post, and I'll make a few comments.

I had one case where a husband installed a recording device on the phone line and hid the electronics in the crawl space, so the above advice about searching for hidden cameras, and other electronics is an excellent suggestion.

I believe your girlfriend qualifies for a DVTRO, however, the quicker more cost effective way is to have the attorney appear ex parte and get an order that he cannot enter the residence without permission or a court order. Your girlfriend's attorney should be doing this for free, he clearly dropped the ball by not having something in writing that your girlfriend has exclusive use, possession and control of this property. Any attorney with a reasonable amount of family law experience, should have foreseen this circumstance.

Your girlfriend does not need a lease, she just needs a court order.

The husband cannot file a claim in another court pertaining to this property. It is already the subject of the marital dissolution case, and the family court has exclusive jurisdiction over almost all matters between a husband and wife while they are in the process of divorcing.

I am going to back off on my opinion that this is burglary. With no lease, and no existing court order, I believe the husband would have a good defense to a burglary charge.

However, as I stated above, his conduct is egregious and it is exactly why the court has the power to issue monetary sanctions against a party, that engages in this type of behavior.

[Maltese Falcon]

At the very least should have put that confidential stuff in off site storage after the first "Break-in"

.

[hunterb]

Wow that's pretty unnecessary.
Sorry if your life sucks but no need to drag the world down with you.
Can't possibly see how any of this relates to his fiancee's character. Grow up.

Choice of spouse reflects on character.

Starting a new relationship while still having connections to an old one (that doesn't involve a child) reflects on character.

So do personal insults and hypocrisy---like hurling personal insults towards someone and then telling them to grow up.

[naeco81]

Also would suggest you change wifi password and network name (SSID) at the house OP.
Frankly I would replace the router with one of my own.

[Erion929]

People seriously dropped the ball on this. 30 MONTHS later...still property issues? Without legal protection?

[Trriemferent]

1. Tell your fiance to get a new lawyer that is going to work on her behalf
2. Report Exs lawyer to the State Bar for position of stolen property and unethical behavior
3. Tell fiance to hire mover to go to her other property (where ex lives) while he is out and move everything to a undisclosed location.
4. Tell fiance to go to her other property (where Ex lives) and break all the windows and when the police arrive, tell them its also her property and she can destroy it if she wants.

[Considerizer]

Ditto what RandyD said. It is the shortest distance from A to B.