Karambit

[GuyFawkes]

LEOs, if you stopped someone and they had a folding karambit pocket knife (the type with a hole on the end for retention) would you charge them with possession of brass knuckles?

My concern is with the finger hole being considered metal knuckles. The finger hole is used mainly for deployment and retention but could be used to strike, but so could the butt of any other knife.

Here's an example of the style of knife I'm referring to, it is a folding knife:

Fox 479 Folding Karambit

http://www.karambit.com/karambits/folding-karambits/emerson-waved-karambits/fox-479-black-g10-folding-karambit-emerson-wave/

[basket of deplorables]

LEOs, if you stopped someone and they had a folding karambit pocket knife (the type with a hole on the end for retention) would you charge them with possession of brass knuckles?

My concern is with the finger hole being considered metal knuckles. The finger hole is used mainly for deployment and retention but could be used to strike, but so could the butt of any other knife.

Here's an example of the style of knife I'm referring to, it is a folding knife:

Fox 479 Folding Karambit

http://www.karambit.com/karambits/folding-karambits/emerson-waved-karambits/fox-479-black-g10-folding-karambit-emerson-wave/

great question. I have the same knife but with a straight blade.

[Librarian]

I don't see how that ring offers the same functionality as 'brass knuckles'.

OTOH,

16405.


As used in this part, “composite knuckles” means any device or instrument made wholly or partially of composite materials, other than a medically prescribed prosthetic, that is not metal knuckles, that is worn for purposes of offense or defense in or on the hand, and that either protects the wearer’s hand while striking a blow or increases the force of impact from the blow or injury to the individual receiving the blow.

and

16920.


As used in this part, “metal knuckles” means any device or instrument made wholly or partially of metal that is worn for purposes of offense or defense in or on the hand and that either protects the wearer’s hand while striking a blow or increases the force of impact from the blow or injury to the individual receiving the blow. The metal contained in the device may help support the hand or fist, provide a shield to protect it, or consist of projections or studs which would contact the individual receiving a blow.

The traditional 'roll of quarters' would meet the "help support the hand or fist" or "increases the force of impact from the blow ", and so would a knife without the ring.

[SoCalPI]

Not to your question but those knives are hell of sharp. Make sure the action is stiff and it doesn't open in your pocket, even a little open can be bad news.

[GuyFawkes]

I don't see how that ring offers the same functionality as 'brass knuckles'.

OTOH, and
The traditional 'roll of quarters' would meet the "help support the hand or fist" or "increases the force of impact from the blow ", and so would a knife without the ring.

Thanks Librarian. I agree that there would be a good argument in court against it being considered metal knuckles since by definition any other knife or random metal object would also be considered metal knuckles. However I'm trying to stay out of court. If police consider them to be metal knuckles then I would just avoid it. I'm not in a position to take this to the supreme court.

[omgwtfbbq]

Fixed > Folder

Not if you wanna wear your shirt untucked. See Section 21310 of the CA PC.

[CBR_rider]

Fixed > Folder

Not that I care; but I'm sure there are a few items in that picture that if carried on one's person would be considered "metal knuckles."

[GuyFawkes]

Fixed > Folder

Not in CA.

[Slack Jaw]

A lot of us LEOs carry these... I do anyway. I supose one could use them as "brass knuckles" but I dont think I would charge for 16920 if circumstances didnt call for it. Now, if my call was a report of a guy "beating" someone with a knife and he had a Karambit as described...

[GuyFawkes]

A lot of us LEOs carry these... I do anyway. I supose one could use them as "brass knuckles" but I dont think I would charge for 16920 if circumstances didnt call for it. Now, if my call was a report of a guy "beating" someone with a knife and he had a Karambit as described...

That's good to hear. Makes sense.

[tgriffin]

Agreed with Slack Jaw. I carry a benchmade SOCP dagger on my duty belt. A lot is going to depend on how I read your intent with the device, and its form/function. Prime example in the fixed blade picture in this thread: I have no problem with any of the knives on the left unless they are concealed. On the right, I'd take a look at some of them closer, but at least three of those are 'knucks' that I would cite and release on with seizure of the item.

[eta34]

The fact that any of the items in the photo could be deemed illegal is ridiculous. We have way too many asinine laws.

[omgwtfbbq]

The fact that any of the items in the photo could be deemed illegal is ridiculous. We have way too many asinine laws.

I will remind you that this is CA. Where logic counts for nothing, and if it looks "scary" it's illegal. Take heart, my friend, it's for the children.