Hypothetical Question for the LEOs

[ckaspar]

Howdy all,

Not a LEO here, just a run if the mill average citizen but I have a question for the LEOs in attendance.

Suppose a person hears someone breaking into their car in the middle of the night. Said person grabs a backpack with a handgun in it and runs out to confront the crook.

With his hand on the gun but still in the bag, he gets the crook to stop their actions and calls the police.

If the owner of the vehicle or the crook were to mention that the vehicle owner said or threatened that they had a firearm, what if any, repercussions could the vehicle owner face? In this hypothetical, the vehicle owner remains on their property, if that matters. Would things be different if the vehicle owner had brandished the weapon or left their property, even just to the sidewalk or street?

Thanks in advance for your response and if this is not the appropriate place please feel free to.move the post.

[Librarian]

Call 911 first.

26045.


(a) Nothing in Section 25850 is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that any person or the property of any person is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property.

(b) A violation of Section 25850 is justifiable when a person who possesses a firearm reasonably believes that person is in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a current restraining order issued by a court against another person who has been found to pose a threat to the life or safety of the person who possesses the firearm. This subdivision may not apply when the circumstances involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to Division 10 (commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent a factual finding of a specific threat to the person’s life or safety. It is not the intent of the Legislature to limit, restrict, or narrow the application of current statutory or judicial authority to apply this or other justifications to a defendant charged with violating Section 25400 or committing another similar offense. Upon trial for violating Section 25850, the trier of fact shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable belief that the defendant was in grave danger.

(c) As used in this section, “immediate” means the brief interval before and after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its assistance.

If an intruder or visitor can access your property without hopping a fence or gate, then for gun-bearing purposes (in an incorporated area) that property is 'public' in the sense of 'the public has access'.

[micro911]

If it happens outside and you are inside, there is no immediate threat to life. Maybe you are better off calling police. When you are outside with a gun, when police arrives, they don't know who is who and no one knows what will happen.

[ckaspar]

Thanks for the info guys.

In my hypothetical, let's assume that after the crook was confronted and 911 called that the gun, still in bag, was put back in the house so a 'miscommunication' with the soon the be arriving LEOs was much less likely to occur.

Based on those responses above, it's safe to assume that the vehicle owner could be breaking the law just by being outside with the handgun, even if concealed in a bag and never brandished.

I guess, even if there were no real firearm in play, even threatening the crook with an imaginary weapon could still cause a potential legal issue?

[oddjob]

I responded to a call almost exactly like this. Dispatch told me what the home owner was wearing (t-shirt and boxer shorts) and he had a firearm. He had a very nice S&W M-17 in his hands and a flashlight. It was loaded and I just simply asked him to put it away while I aired the suspect description. The home owner was standing in his front yard. Nothing happened to the home owner. We did catch the suspects hiding in their car though.

[DevilDawgJJ]

I have a story that happened to me, except it was my home that was being broken into. I came home from a hunting trip to find a guy standing butt naked ( obviously High) trying to break into my house.

I'm on my phone, so I'll fill in the details later.

I have to answer yes every time they (CCW)ask if I have used my firearm in any manor.

[ckaspar]

I responded to a call almost exactly like this. Dispatch told me what the home owner was wearing (t-shirt and boxer shorts) and he had a firearm. He had a very nice S&W M-17 in his hands and a flashlight. It was loaded and I just simply asked him to put it away while I aired the suspect description. The home owner was standing in his front yard. Nothing happened to the home owner. We did catch the suspects hiding in their car though.

Thank you for that.

Based on the answers it almost seems that there is a little room for discretion for the LEO in the situation then?

[Ron-Solo]

I responded to a call almost exactly like this. Dispatch told me what the home owner was wearing (t-shirt and boxer shorts) and he had a firearm. He had a very nice S&W M-17 in his hands and a flashlight. It was loaded and I just simply asked him to put it away while I aired the suspect description. The home owner was standing in his front yard. Nothing happened to the home owner. We did catch the suspects hiding in their car though.

I handled several incidents like this over the years. A couple of times the homeowner got proned out while we sorted things out. I can't think of one of those incidents where the homeowner went to jail or lost his gun.

I had one incident where the suspects came running out of the house and we detained them, and the homeowner came running out with his HiPower to get the bad guys. He came real close to getting shot because he didn't follow instructions right away. It all worked out but the adrenaline was sure pumping that night. The incident later became a segment on "Rescue 911" the first season.

I only had one shooting incident where the homeowner went to jail but that's because he basically executed the suspect after he surrendered. It was a kid stealing a bike from the backyard. Evidence contradicted his statements big time.

If you go out, call 911 first and STAY ON THE LINE.

[razorscs]

Exiting your home with a gun when someone is outside not posing an immediate threat to you is NOT a good idea. Now grabbing your gun and being ready for that person to come towards the house is a good choice, but make sure dispatch knows stay on the phone so that when officers arrive and dispatch tells you to secure the gun you can do so and tell them you did.

[DevilDawgJJ]

Ok. So I came home to a guy forcing his way into my house. I reached into my bag and grabbed my G27 and drew down on the guy, yelling at him to GTFO!!

Dispatch was informed that the home owner had a gun...guess that expedited things a bit more, because SDPD ghetto bird was on scene before the ground units. This was about 2100 or so. About 6-7 units arrived (what seemed like 30mins) and the first unit that arrived was only concerned about where my gun was.

I was told to put the gun away, when the police arrived. They took it out of my bag and secured it. Then they handled the crazy. After it was all said and done, I spoke to the Sgt. told him my statement. He gave me back my G27, empty, without the mag and the round I had in the chamber (165gr Federal Hydra-shoks). He gave the mag and round to my father and said, "I feel comfortable separating the ammo, when I give this back to you"

I'm sure they ran the weapon...but I didn't care. No anti-gun comments or lectures--other than why did I have my gun and why did I draw on the guy?

Anyways....Cool story brah!

[omgwtfbbq]

This is one of the many situations that come up where you really have to balance what is legal vs. what is prudent.

It's certainly not prudent to exit your home with a firearm and confront a burglar attempting to break into or steal your car. That's why you have car insurance (hopefully). As a rule of thumb, don't leave anything in your vehicle you don't mind getting stolen.

I say this, as others have in this thread, not necessarily because of the confusion it might cause to responded LE, but for the simple fact that you may aggravate the situation by inserting yourself and a gun into it. The suspect may a weapon of his own and pointing a gun at him/her might motivate them to take the incident to a lethal force level. I generally operate on the principle of "don't shoot people if you don't have to."

[Petro6golf]

Howdy all,

Not a LEO here, just a run if the mill average citizen but I have a question for the LEOs in attendance.

Suppose a person hears someone breaking into their car in the middle of the night. Said person grabs a backpack with a handgun in it and runs out to confront the crook.

With his hand on the gun but still in the bag, he gets the crook to stop their actions and calls the police.

If the owner of the vehicle or the crook were to mention that the vehicle owner said or threatened that they had a firearm, what if any, repercussions could the vehicle owner face? In this hypothetical, the vehicle owner remains on their property, if that matters. Would things be different if the vehicle owner had brandished the weapon or left their property, even just to the sidewalk or street?

Thanks in advance for your response and if this is not the appropriate place please feel free to.move the post.

I wouldn't care in the least bit due to you being a normal person and the crook being a crook.

[Win231]

This is one of the many situations that come up where you really have to balance what is legal vs. what is prudent.

It's certainly not prudent to exit your home with a firearm and confront a burglar attempting to break into or steal your car. That's why you have car insurance (hopefully). As a rule of thumb, don't leave anything in your vehicle you don't mind getting stolen.

I say this, as others have in this thread, not necessarily because of the confusion it might cause to responded LE, but for the simple fact that you may aggravate the situation by inserting yourself and a gun into it. The suspect may a weapon of his own and pointing a gun at him/her might motivate them to take the incident to a lethal force level. I generally operate on the principle of "don't shoot people if you don't have to."

Sage advice. I'm not foolish enough to pay for car insurance, then risk being arrested, charged, or shot stopping crime. That's what cops are paid to do...and unlike me, their legal fees (if any) are paid by the city.

And, I wonder what a non LEO would do if they confront someone stealing their car & instead of running away, the thief advances toward the car's owner with no weapon & he's twice your size? Yeah...go ahead & shoot him; the legal fees will cost you everything you own & every dime you have & you'll likely still go to prison.

[ckaspar]

Thanks for info and advice all.

Certainly all food for thought. My main reason for asking really was curiosity. I've never been in this situation, nor do I ever want to be. It's just one of those things that I always wondered how it would be handled from.the LEO/legal side. In real life I'd probably hit the panic button on my car and scare the dude away, most likely. It's just good to know that even though the Cali gun laws are crazy, when real people get involved that common sense will typically prevail, assuming I don't do something to make the situation go bad.

Thanks again.