Homeless Breaking into House Property Question

[iCalvin]

Hey, how's it going? This is my first post and not happy that it is this.

My father recently purchased a house in Tulare County with the intention of fixing it and flipping or renting it out. The property has been on the market for a couple months so the lawn of the house basically screams "I am vacant." The first time we checked up on it was 2 weeks ago. I went in yesterday with some buddies to get some square foot measurements of the floor and when I first got there the home reeked of cigarette smoke and then I ran into 2 homeless people sleeping in one of the bedrooms claiming they were "friends of the family" since they thought I was a contractor. Surprised the crap out of me and a million situations ran through my head on their intentions after I told them to get out. I did have 3 other people with me but I was iffy on the situation as I do not know if they had a weapon and I only had my pocket knife on me.

I did call the police and the officer told me that homeless people break into vacant homes a lot in the city and that it happens so much that it is on the bottom of their list of priorities. He stated if I catch them again that I should attempt a citizen's arrest since the intruders have already committed a felony by breaking into the property and call stating someone is breaking into my property without mentioning the word "homeless." Three hours after I kicked them out that day, my friends which I left at the house while I went to buy supplies spotted the same homeless people scoping out the house again and biking away after making contact with my friend standing by the front door.

Now my question is, what can I do exactly for a citizen's arrest. I am in the process of getting a CCW and have been approved already, I just have to wait out the rest of the process but this scenario really reminded me of the reasoning for getting the permit, which was essentially this as my dad and I own quite a bit of property. Since I do not have a currently active CCW permit, I know that I cannot have a loaded firearm outside of my property, so the only way I can check the property safely is opening the door, chambering a round and walking cautiously to make sure I don't get ambushed. I know it sounds overly cautious but I do not know the intentions of homeless people that break into homes to sleep besides being desperate for shelter. I also fear for my dad's health if he were to go alone and encounter homeless people inside the house. I felt lucky I had strength in numbers and that I caught them when they were sleeping so that they did not have time to comprehend and prepare for the situation.

If I catch homeless people inside my property again which I assume is a felony for breaking and entering, can I hold them at gunpoint until police arrive or is that illegal? What are ways of detaining intruders inside the house?

Thanks.

[RedVines]

so the squatters you described did not commit a felony. Yes they broke into your property, which is a misdemeanor. Sorry I forgot the section. In order for them to be charged with burglary, a felony, an officer would need to prove that they broke in with the intent of committing petty theft, grand theft or any other felony.

So if an officer were with you at the time and you wanted to press charges, I can only see them being charged with misdemeanor breaking and entry, misdemeanor trespassing and maybe vandalism if they caused damage to the property. Whether or not vandalism is a felony or misses or depends on if they did more than 950 dollars worth of damage or not.

I honestly would advise against holding anyone at gunpoint or even going in to "clear" the house. Call the cops and let them do it. They have a lot more legal protection from criminal and civil liabilities then you do as a civilian. You don't want to become the next George Zimmerman over a couple tweakers squatting on your property. Just not worth it.

[farmerjoe]

Like Redvine said, if you see them in there again, back away and call the cops. Don't mention homeless, just tell them someone is breaking in. They'll get there fairly quickly.

A couple of years ago my sister's neighbors, unknown to her, bailed out on their house. About a month later, mom, dad and their 2 kids move in. They're living the normal suburban life, going to school and taking care of the lawn and house. One afternoon all hell breaks lose. Cops everywhere. Seems someone from the bank and a realtor came to look at the house that had been foreclosed on and these folks just decided they liked the area and moved in. They were gone the next day, but my sister said the house was in better shape than when the previous owners bailed out.

[iCalvin]

so the squatters you described did not commit a felony. Yes they broke into your property, which is a misdemeanor. Sorry I forgot the section. In order for them to be charged with burglary, a felony, an officer would need to prove that they broke in with the intent of committing petty theft, grand theft or any other felony.

So if an officer were with you at the time and you wanted to press charges, I can only see them being charged with misdemeanor breaking and entry, misdemeanor trespassing and maybe vandalism if they caused damage to the property. Whether or not vandalism is a felony or misses or depends on if they did more than 950 dollars worth of damage or not.

I honestly would advise against holding anyone at gunpoint or even going in to "clear" the house. Call the cops and let them do it. They have a lot more legal protection from criminal and civil liabilities then you do as a civilian. You don't want to become the next George Zimmerman over a couple tweakers squatting on your property. Just not worth it.

Thank you for your input on this situation. It really helps given I have no experience on this matter. Besides ransacking the items that were left by the previous owner which is awaiting pickup from their son currently in the Navy and keeping the random handfuls .38 reloads I found laying around the old owner's reloading room, I didn't see much of anything missing or them actually attempting to take anything.

It is just frustrating in my situation to have to worry about homeless people breaking into my house for shelter and a shower. My experience with homeless people in Fresno are different than that of Tulare County or Visalia in general. The area in which this house is in is pretty decent, but there are numerous homeless people wandering the streets surprisingly.

My original post may make me sound somewhat trigger or gun happy but rest assure I am not. I follow the statement that every bullet has a lawyer attached to it. I am just concerned for my dad and I given that we live an hour away from the property and don't check up on it frequently which gives time for homeless people to think the house is vacant. I wouldn't want to call the police every time I go to the property as that will be a huge inconvenience to me and them given they took an hour to respond to my call. I spent all day today cleaning up the yard to make it as presentable as possible in the new "brown is the new green" drought measures so that other homeless people won't be attracted to the house.

[iCalvin]

Like Redvine said, if you see them in there again, back away and call the cops. Don't mention homeless, just tell them someone is breaking in. They'll get there fairly quickly.

A couple of years ago my sister's neighbors, unknown to her, bailed out on their house. About a month later, mom, dad and their 2 kids move in. They're living the normal suburban life, going to school and taking care of the lawn and house. One afternoon all hell breaks lose. Cops everywhere. Seems someone from the bank and a realtor came to look at the house that had been foreclosed on and these folks just decided they liked the area and moved in. They were gone the next day, but my sister said the house was in better shape than when the previous owners bailed out.

Yea I am keeping that in mind. I leave the house in a state where I can see if anyone has been inside or looked around it before I leave back home. If I think it has been broken into I will call the police and not go inside.

For your story, did your sister's neighbor actually buy the house or did they fake a lease for it? That is pretty crazy either way. The officer I was talking with told me that a lot of people were breaking into vacant homes in the area, changing the locks, and renting them out to people for cheap. Those said people will then take the "renters" money and disappear. Not really a good impression for me of Visalia.

[farmerjoe]

They were squatters from what she could tell. Figured with all the foreclosed homes the bank wouldn't screw with them for awhile. Didn't pay anything to the bank. But they did take care of the place, which I'm sure the bank was happy about.

[iCalvin]

They were squatters from what she could tell. Figured with all the foreclosed homes the bank wouldn't screw with them for awhile. Didn't pay anything to the bank. But they did take care of the place, which I'm sure the bank was happy about.

Guess the bank aways wins :roll eyes: Never really thought of squatters in my life. Most of my property is outside of the city of Fresno in a town with maybe 3 homeless people if that. Only had one instance of a homeless person breaking into my father's property to sleep in the gated refrigeration equipment area for warmth next to the compressors.

I really have to learn the law more around situations I may encounter in the future. I wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of the law or set a bad example to further reduce gun rights to Californians. I thank you guys for your comments so far, it is much appreciated.

[tyrist]

This situation is incredibly common because of the massive amount of abandoned homes on the banks balance sheet they are not processing. The vacant homes become known in the homeless community and even after kicking one group out another may use it.

The crime is trespass to dwelling and it is a misdemeanor so a private person's arrest is needed.

[Tripper]

redvines is right on it not likely to be a felony, just wanted to add hes probably referring to 459 which requires some intent (with intent to commit grand or petit larceny or any felony is guilty of burglary) and it requires the property to be inhabited, inhabited for that section means currently being used for dwelling purposes, vacant house is by definition not inhabited.

[Tripper]

i'm not sure a citizens arrest is needed, as if its the same homeless, the officer can arrest on the misdo since they are likely to continue to commit the crime.

[iCalvin]

Well it has been a couple days since I looked at this thread but I appreciate the extra info. The last time I went, I decided to set up "traps" that will tell me if someone has broken in. So far so good, only thing tampered with was a window screen removed and finger marks on the window trying to see if it is unlatched. When arriving to the property today to do some work on it, I ran into one of the homeless people I originally saw biking and scoping out the house. Couple minutes later I see him again. I am just going to assume they are squatting at the other vacant house down the street from this property as I was able to talk to the neighbor today and she told me all I need to know about the squatters on the property and told me she will let me know of any activity that happens. They have broken down the backyard fence door down numerous times apparently so I took the time to replace it today so that they know that someone is working on the house and it is not unattended anymore. I also put up a No Trespassing sign though I doubt that will do much.

So problematic as I don't want to be fixing up the property to have some hobos break in and destroy or take what I am working on or install.

[SansSouci]

iCalvin,

The trespassers committed a violation of California Penal Code Section 602.5. It's a misdemeanor, meaning it has to be committed in a cop's presence in order for him to effect arrest. So call the cops if you think some is inside your home. Let the cops catch them.

You could stretch it, and I mean stretch in into a res burg were trespasser to steal utilities; e.g., taking showers. But were that the way you were to go, I'd imagine it'd be busted down to 602.5.

[Tripper]

You can put a low budget sentry safe in the corner of the living room

[LtJim]

Old School - Arrest them 459 PC--Let the DA drop the charges--830.1 PC protected the Officer.

Nowadays--602.5(a) PC - LEO will try and get you to do a C.A. Dont do it!
Call the agency, have the LEO respond. Have them observe the Misd. in progress. demand they take the suspect into custody. They do not want a complaint filed for them not doing their job.

[Garv]

Can you hire a private security company to tour the property once in a while?
Let them call it in.