Push for redefining the word Cop...

[Hopalong]

Sine the term "cop" is a pejorative anyway what does it matter how it is redefined?

I've often wondered about this. Is this word, in fact a pejorative?

I have heard LEOs refer to themselves, or other LEOs as Cops.

Is this word a term of endearment when used among yourselves, but a no-no when used by outsiders?

I realize that there must be different viewpoints, but is there a general consensus?

[stormvet]

And yet, it is in total suppot of LEO'S as the good guys. The best of the best. Perhaps I am wrong, maybe the Police are also suseptable to following leaders regardless of the Sprit of the law, But I doubt it. Soldiers have followed the politics of who is bad from the beginning of time.

Soldiers are not politicians or lawyers. They are warriors, their job is to win the wars our civilians get us into. It is not thier responsibility nor do they have the time nor means to define if a war is just or not. That is the civilian politicions job and the country's citizens to elect politicians to office who will only send its warriors to just wars.

Do not blame the soldiers for following bad politics, blame the civilians who voted it into office.

[roostersgt]

My father, was a "cop" in the 40's. According to him, it was short for "copper", that was a nickname given because of their "copper shields" and buttons on the coats.
I have heard several reasons given for the term. May or may not be accurate....This could lead to a lively discussion!

I learned in college that the term "copper" originated in England and referred to the copper buttons worn on the uniform coat of the English police. "Cop" was the shortened version of the moniker and was adopted by the immigrant US population in New York and the east coast. The use of the term has been expanded and now includes just about anyone who has any type of "peace officer" status, no matter how removed from the work of the original "cops".

[wisardd1]

Storm, I agree wholeheartedly, except for one thing: What happens when you and I become their enemy?

[stormvet]

I left my tin foil hat in my other car. But to answer your questions, I do not fear the U.S. Military, nor do I see a day where I will need to.
The CIVILIAN's will pass laws that will make you and I a criminal, the military will not be involved. If it happens it will be much more subtle then the 82nd Airborne kicking in your door. Most likely the ammo and weapons will no longer me available. Much easier to weed it out though attrition, then to try and take it.

[wisardd1]

And who do you think will enforce those changes. Btw, I bet you look best in green tin foil! Perhaps names like Stalin, Mao, Hitler, and the Turkish Pograms might ring a bell. It is always the military that destroys its own citizens, following those elected or those who take control by force. Although I was raised in a box, I choose not to live in one. Another point, do you know what the percentage of change in in Military brass in the past 8 years? Last I read it was over50%

[pterrell]

The article was about recalling military type weaponry from LEOs. The justification is to increase the view of the public so they don't see the police s as some type of military presence against the citiizenry. I don't buy it. Why? The diiference between a LEO and a Soldier is vast. A Police officer protects citizens from others who would break the law. Soldiers protect our Country from those who are deemed enemies. They do not know the law. They only know the bad guys to be those their superiors deem bad. Theirs rifles can be pointed at so called enemies both foreign and domestic. Police know who the bad guys are because of law. They understand the Spirit of the law Ultimately, I would place my bets on a well regulated militia as those being police officers before those who are in the armed forcesare. God bless our soldiers for what they do, and god damn our politicians for taking us where we are headed.

You think that the police is the "well regulated militia" that the constitution referred to? GTFO!

I think you grossly overestimate most LEO's understanding of most laws, let alone "the spirit of the law". With all of the departmental based profiling that goes on in much of the country, I also wouldn't exactly give the greater community credit for knowing the bad guys from good guys based on the law. Are there officers who know and understand the law very well? Absolutely. I doubt that any of them are lawyers though.

As a Marine, I actually find it rather insulting that you seem to consider us drones that go where we're told without a question in our mind. Yes, we "point our rifles" at all enemies of the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. Why? Because we've taken an oath to uphold freedom. You should really reconsider giving backhanded compliments like that. If you don't like us, what we stand for or how we do business, then keep it to yourself.

[stormvet]

And who do you think will enforce those changes. Btw, I bet you look best in green tin foil! Perhaps names like Stalin, Mao, Hitler, and the Turkish Pograms might ring a bell. It is always the military that destroys its own citizens, following those elected or those who take control by force. Although I was raised in a box, I choose not to live in one. Another point, do you know what the percentage of change in in Military brass in the past 8 years? Last I read it was over50%

Your problem is you are comparing the military of the United States to communist Soviet Union, China, Nazi Germany and Turkey. That is not only very wrong but insulting.
And I do believe you live in a Box, I don't believe you've ever served this nation or ever been in harms way. If you had you would know that it is a Soldier, Marine, Salior's duty not to follow an unlawful order, unlike the military's you so disrespectfully compared us to.

My tin foil hat is Multi Cam. I believe the most honorable profession on earth is a U.S. Warrior. And I apologize to my LE brothers for taking this thread so far off topic(pun intended)

[wisardd1]

You are right, this is going way off base. It was meant as a salute, not a disparagement. Soldiers don't have the basic rights as laid out in the Constitution. Their basic right are laid out in the USMJ! Gee, I wonder how I learned that 40 some years ago. I wonder what the percentage of Soldiers are compared to the percentage of soldiers over 25? Who dies first and how many combat soldiers question what they are fighting. How many parents of soldiers KIA question what their kids life was given up for? Was it bad trade agreements with the Japanese in the 40s? Was it challenging the Chinese in the 50s. Was it the opium wars of the 60s and 70s? Was it oil in the 90s and 2000s. I don't know.
Cops protect the citizens of our country based on law, soldiers fight people who are deemed enemies because they are told too. Take Benghazi for example, reports reveal the Stand down issue. People died unecessarily because of political descisons. Now, I hope our soldiers no better, but history has shown repeatedly that is not the case. Finally, I am not talking about you as a soldier. It is not meant to be a personal affront. And, I am sure it won't be long before this thread is locked. Oh well! Who was it at Kent State? Who killed the protestors there. Was it the police or was it the military? I am not sure I remember correctly.

[Atomic Donut]

As a LEO and a Troop I can tell you that at least half my department is ex military or reserve/guard. You make it sound like troops will go hunting for LEOs if given the order. I've talked about this subject a couple times both with other service members and civis. Just because we are the wolves in the night oversees doesn't mean we don't have common sense. Most of us do not agree or even like the politicians in office but we LOVE our country. We took oaths to defend our country against all enemies foreign or domestic, but we have enough sense to know when one is not an enemy or pose a true threat. I'd be quite surprised myself to find any company or field grade officer who would relay such unlawful orders to his troops.

[Redemption]

This whole conversation seems a bit silly, Also I do not understand some of the military bad mouthing. I spent 4 years in the Marines. I knew the laws I lived under as well as the ideals I was meant to preserve, so did most of my fellow Marines.

I think we are all a bit biased in our opinions. To say that soldiers are lied to while cops know the truth, it is as much of a lie as if I said the reverse.

The bike cop that lied about almost every aspect of the last ticket I got and still lost in court certainly did not. Ive been flagged twice by police officers with condition 1 weapons as an innocent bystander in drug busts they deemed appropriate to execute in very public places (5 feet from me as I was pumping my gas for instance) I am not here to bash LEO's my father is a reserve and a CCW carrier, and I have all the respect in the world for LEO with cool heads and keen understanding of the law. Like anyone else anywhere else I treat them on a case by case basis. The truth is there is a massive amount of cross over between the Military and LEO, there is also massive training issues within a lot of departments and in some cases a serious lack of understanding of the law. We all know that the the same can be said about some military and it has its fair share of bad eggs as well. To say that one is dirty and the other clean while standing in same muddy water.... well thats just a bit silly.

The major difference I have seen is that the gap is now closing between the way the media and the public see and handle individuals who are in the military and leo. It is easy to understand why that is. In my area LEO are armed better than I (personally) was when I went into combat. The sop has become eerily similar as well as the interactions.

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people,"

I am not for disarming anyone who is law abiding, so I could never support anything that would reduce the tools that LEO have at their disposal. I do think it is important though for us to consider what the effects of how we proceed with adding tools to the arsenal will affect what it is we ask LEO to do.