Question on leave

[SGT Loco]

Hey guys, quick question here. Is anyone aware of any regs regarding being forced to take leave, or even know of where I might look for them?


Here's the situation- word just got passed down today from my full time command that everyone will be taking MANDATORY block leave for the holidays (9 days total) and we will be charged for it. Don't get me wrong, I love days off, but here's my issue:

I made holiday plans and put in for leave months in advance, and my days do not coincide with this block leave. So what's going to happen is that I am going to be pushed very far into the black on accrued leave, without enough notice to really do much with it. I made plans months ago because I knew waiting 'til December to make hotel reservations, and get rental cars or plane tickets would be disastrous. Everyone I would have done something with already has other plans. At this point, I can't even go out of state (much less out of the country, which is what I would rather do with this many days) and visit family without burning through half my savings. What's more is that I guarantee next year they're going to use our negative balances to deny leave that we actually want to take.

Needless to say, I'm not super excited. I plan on bringing the issue up with my chain of command, and I know I won't be the only one. I can ***** about fairness and ethics all I want, but I know those arguments will likely fall on deaf ears. I'd rather have some sort of regulatory leg to stand on, if there is one.

Anybody know something that may help?

[evidens83]

In my unit, you are only forced to take leave if you have use-or-lose days.

[jeg0777]

AR 600-8-10.

[jeg0777]

That is of course if you are in the Army. I don't know what the reg is for the other branches.

[nothing4u]

Is there a limit in the Army on how many days of leave you can have on the books? When I was in the Navy I had something like 110+ days built up before I started burning them. Being force to burn leave days at your commands convenience is just wrong. At the most I could see them do is set blocks of leave during holidays where you either take them during those periods or not take any at all because of maximum % are allowed on leave. If you have your leave paperwork already signed off ahead of time already in your hands they can't force you to give it up. Sounds like you put in your request ahead and never got it all signed off?

[Mr.Caketown]

Is there a limit in the Army on how many days of leave you can have on the books? When I was in the Navy I had something like 110+ days built up before I started burning them.

in the Army its 75-90 and it shows up on LES . It doesnt always matter what ARs say , unit level and battalion levels always try to add on their own mumbo jumbo because they dont have enough officers to run Rear D

[SGT Loco]

Thanks for the response guys, you've all been very helpful! To clarify a few of the questions; yes, I am Army. No, this is not use-it-or-lose-it days. I'm hardly even in double digits, much less have months worth of leave built up. I'm on a domestic support task force with the guard, not a true active duty unit.

This block leave that's being pushed upon us cannot be not a minimum staffing issue, for one because we've been understaffed for months now anyway, and for two because this is a region wide thing- everyone in SoCal is being forced to take these days. That's why it doesn't make sense to me. There seems to be no legitimate purpose to serve here, unless the COL is just hellbent on further demolishing an already spectacularly low morale level.


Now, here's another question- to detract leave days, they need a signed DA31, right? If so, can I just not sign it? I'm not going to sign a "request" form for something I am not "requesting". IMHO, ordering me to sign one would be tantamount to ordering me to commit fraud. Obviously this is a last resort route that will likely serve only to get me into trouble, but I'll be honest- I don't need this job all that bad really. I'm more than willing to get myself in trouble standing up for my principles, and that's what this really is to me- a question of principles. I don't really have some great plans for the leave days they'll be taking away from me, I just have issue with the way they're going about this.

In the end they're going to find a way to stick it to me no matter what, but I'll sleep just fine at night.

AR 600-8-10.

I'll be pouring over the regs tonight, after I'm finished stuffing my face to the point where I hate myself.

[LCU1670]

Commader is final authority on leave policy for the unit, 90 days on books max then you have to use minimum 30 without waiver. When I was in waiver was by first general in chain. When I retired I had 120+ days +10 for house hunting, took it as terminal leave.

[SGT Loco]

There's no use it or lose it issue here. I don't have 120, 90, 60, or even 30 days. I have 10. On top of the leave I have already requested and had approved the days they are forcing me to take would put me in a negative balance.

[Anschiss]

I know for the Marine Corps you can go on recruiter's assistance instead of leave.

[18Dmedic]

Thanks for the response guys, you've all been very helpful! To clarify a few of the questions; yes, I am Army. No, this is not use-it-or-lose-it days. I'm hardly even in double digits, much less have months worth of leave built up. I'm on a domestic support task force with the guard, not a true active duty unit.

This block leave that's being pushed upon us cannot be not a minimum staffing issue, for one because we've been understaffed for months now anyway, and for two because this is a region wide thing- everyone in SoCal is being forced to take these days. That's why it doesn't make sense to me. There seems to be no legitimate purpose to serve here, unless the COL is just hellbent on further demolishing an already spectacularly low morale level.


Now, here's another question- to detract leave days, they need a signed DA31, right? If so, can I just not sign it? I'm not going to sign a "request" form for something I am not "requesting". IMHO, ordering me to sign one would be tantamount to ordering me to commit fraud. Obviously this is a last resort route that will likely serve only to get me into trouble, but I'll be honest- I don't need this job all that bad really. I'm more than willing to get myself in trouble standing up for my principles, and that's what this really is to me- a question of principles. I don't really have some great plans for the leave days they'll be taking away from me, I just have issue with the way they're going about this.

In the end they're going to find a way to stick it to me no matter what, but I'll sleep just fine at night.




I'll be pouring over the regs tonight, after I'm finished stuffing my face to the point where I hate myself.

Just exit peacefully. Bad discharge will follow you the rest of your life. Don't do anything stupid.

[todd2968]

I'm with you stand up for your principles, just because you wear the uniform you can be pushed to follow their every whim regardless of regs.
If asked to sign, say no thank you. I don't wish to take leave and call legal. Call IG INSPECTOR GENERAL, call congressman, and ask for this order in writing.
Good luck

[SGT Loco]

Just exit peacefully. Bad discharge will follow you the rest of your life. Don't do anything stupid.

I'm with you stand up for your principles, just because you wear the uniform you can be pushed to follow their every whim regardless of regs.
If asked to sign, say no thank you. I don't wish to take leave and call legal. Call IG INSPECTOR GENERAL, call congressman, and ask for this order in writing.
Good luck

I appreciate the sentiment, both of you. I haven't been able to find anything in regs that says they can't do what they're doing, just that to process leave days they need a signed DA31, which I won't willingly sign.

They won't likely fire me over this, much less any sort of negative discharge - this command has gone way out of their way in the past to not let anything reflect badly on them, so I'm safe in that regard really. Ultimately, this may not get me any good references from the command staff, but it won't hurt me in any way that really matters long term. It's just going to make things a little difficult for them short term.

Call it petty, but I'm not one to easily put up with this sort of bull**** from this sort of staff.

[Germz]

Most corporate entities have "mandatory vacations" for two reasons: it allows for decompression of employees..and allows you to investigate employees while they are gone. Its a security thing and a common practice. I've personally never experienced this in the military...most likely because most service members are unable to acrue that many days anyway where they are forced to take leave in a use it or lose it sense.

[Call_me_Tom]

I'm not sure about the Army as I'm a Marine but if you requested leave months ago & it was approved then I would "request mass" (USMC term).

Basically you can complain to whom ever is pushing the mandatory leave superior without repercussion & the matter has to be looked into.