The Time has come

[chris]

I don't think anyone in this thread said they don't respects the reserves. Anyone who wears the uniform deserves respect, regardless of what branch, job or status. However there is a big difference in being active and reserves/guard. As active, it is your LIFE. You cannot get away from it. AR/NG do it for a fraction of the time active does. No one is saying people in the AR/NG cannot perform their duty when called to.

In the years I served I guarantee I have more time in the field sleeping out in the woods training for JUST Battle Drill 1A than AR/NG do in all their drill time combined. You cannot deny the difference. Like I said I don't think anyone said they don't deserve respect but you cannot say it is the same. There are countless acts of valor and heroism from active personnel as well. A squad leader in my platoon, PL in my platoon and XO in my company received the Silver Star during my deployment.

You just have to realize the huge difference in AR/NG and active.

i have to tell you the Reservers aren't part time anymore. we have more crap to deal with on a daily basis. and we don't get paid for it either and add our civilian jobs on top of that. we have CSM at work that does more CSM stuff than work than anything else. if that makes sense to you. it's crazy i tell you. you should see all the crap my PLT SGT sends me to my AKO. lots of suspenses for just about everything.


i never said it was different in any way shape or form. it's your job for full time. i have two jobs civilian and military. but we also bring alot to the table when we deploy we have our civilian skills along as our MOS. but who cares were just part timers in AD eyes even though Reserve and National Guard do pull multiple deployments.
actually someone did say it.

spareparts
You still have to maintain a standard in your personal life but no one in the military respects you.

[epilepticninja]

I don't think anyone in this thread said they don't respects the reserves.

Actually, there are multiple posts in this thread making derogatory statements about reservists. I was going to say something about it after my first post, but why try and argue with other individual's ignorance? And I'm sure those posts are coming from people that have never been in the reserves.

[thebloodsonthewall]

I suggest if you want to serve go all in. I was going to join the National Guard and I talked to a recruiter who was a Calguns member. He told me all the differences and talked me into joining the regular Army. I am so glad that I did. I have been in for three years now and I am an E-5 with orders to a very selective unit.

I have worked with Marine and Army National Guard and Reserves. I was impressed with some and very displeased with most. There is also a National Guard post about 1/2 mile from my house and I run by it all the time. I also have family members in the Air Force Reserves and the Army National Guard. They generally lack the discipline and military bearing that regular Army dudes have. Even on deployment you can tell the difference without even looking at their unit patch. We had a medivac team attached to use and they were garbage. Most of them were over 250 pounds and worthless. We also had an Engineer company with us there were Reserves. Oh yeah and an SF team that was Reserves. I have some horror stories about them.

I have slowly been working on college and I have 72 credits toward my BA right now. It is a little tough to do college classes but it is very doable. The Army has Tuition Assistance that you can use every year. I haven't had to pay for any of my college or touch my GI Bill yet.

[Scuba Steve33]

i have to tell you the Reservers aren't part time anymore. we have more crap to deal with on a daily basis. and we don't get paid for it either and add our civilian jobs on top of that. we have CSM at work that does more CSM stuff than work than anything else. if that makes sense to you. it's crazy i tell you. you should see all the crap my PLT SGT sends me to my AKO. lots of suspenses for just about everything.


i never said it was different in any way shape or form. it's your job for full time. i have two jobs civilian and military. but we also bring alot to the table when we deploy we have our civilian skills along as our MOS. but who cares were just part timers in AD eyes even though Reserve and National Guard do pull multiple deployments.

Compared to active, you guys are part time. As INFANTRY, my day would start at 5:30am and end at 6 or 7pm on a day with NO field training. That's just a regular day with morning PT and afternoon PT. That's if we have regular PT in the morning. If we're doing any type of ruck marching we usually start at 3am. That's every day. Nice, the weekend is here. Nope, you have CQ or Staff Duty for 24 hours. It doesn't end and we get paid next to nothing. When we train, we train for days. We'll sleep out in the woods for several days including weekends and not get "compensated" for those weekend days. Eight to ten day field training exercises were done once a month. That's living out in the woods then entire time. I went to several different states for months of training at a time. No families come with you and you don't get days off during that. There's a lot more to active duty than what's on the surface.

Not to mention, we live on bases in the middle of nowhere in ****ty areas. If Fort Ord was still an active infantry base I would PCS there and stay in forever. It's not and we're forced to live where the Army sends us. That alone is a huge difference.

actually someone did say it.

I must have missed that. Active guys usually do consider them a joke. Not saying I do, just stating from my experience while I was in. On deployment we saw a unit and they were so ****ed up it made me sick. Patrolling with no helmets or PPE. Then again they were no where near hot areas. I know that one experience doesn't speak for everyone. Yes, you guys deploy, there's no denying that but that's not what pisses people off. It's the fact that we are in 24/7 and live far from home only going on leave twice a year for two weeks at a time while you guys have a reversed role pretty much. Live at home and work a month out of a year pretty much.

I'm not trying to get into an argument or pissing match so please don't take it as that. Just stating facts. It's the same deal with infantry and POGs who are active. We put in 100x the amount of work in garrison and deployment but collect the same pay and everything else. There's so many different levels of positions and jobs that there will always be differences like this. It just doesn't end.

Actually, there are multiple posts in this thread making derogatory statements about reservists. I was going to say something about it after my first post, but why try and argue with other individual's ignorance? And I'm sure those posts are coming from people that have never been in the reserves.

I've never been in the reserves but I know the work is a fraction compared to being active. They're not called weekend warriors for nothing.

[epilepticninja]

I've never been in the reserves but I know the work is a fraction compared to being active. They're not called weekend warriors for nothing.

Not all are "weekend warriors." There are fulltime AGR's which are reservists that are on four year rotations as active duty; Guard members on active duty under Title 10 orders; Traditional and IMA reservists on active duty under "manday" orders; and Reserve Tech's which are active, fulltime, reservists who are civil service during the normal duty week (though they are civil service, they are still required to wear their uniform.)

Steve, I spent 12 years on active duty and I had disdain for the reserves and guard even though I knew nothing of those branches of service. Once I was actually in the reserves, I began to truly appreciate what a unique group of individuals they are. And how many of them brought dual and sometimes triple sets of skills to the units they worked for.

I understand that being AD in some instances is no walk in the park. But don't get the mindset that all reservists and guard members are just playing GI Joe once a month, and during their annual tour. Prior to the wars, that may have been true. Not so much anymore. On that note, I'm getting off my soapbox. OP, good luck to whatever decision you make.

[Scuba Steve33]

Not all are "weekend warriors." There are fulltime AGR's which are reservists that are on four year rotations as active duty; Guard members on active duty under Title 10 orders; Traditional and IMA reservists on active duty under "manday" orders; and Reserve Tech's which are active, fulltime, reservists who are civil service during the normal duty week (though they are civil service, they are still required to wear their uniform.)

Steve, I spent 12 years on active duty and I had disdain for the reserves and guard even though I knew nothing of those branches of service. Once I was actually in the reserves, I began to truly appreciate what a unique group of individuals they are. And how many of them brought dual and sometimes triple sets of skills to the units they worked for.

I understand that being AD in some instances is no walk in the park. But don't get the mindset that all reservists and guard members are just playing GI Joe once a month, and during their annual tour. Prior to the wars, that may have been true. Not so much anymore. On that note, I'm getting off my soapbox. OP, good luck to whatever decision you make.

I understand there are different "levels" of reserves. Some of my buddies signed up for x years active x years reserve and tell me all about it. What I disagree with entirely is when reservists claim they do the same as active. That just isn't true. There is a huge difference between the two and it blows my mind that people still claim there isn't. It shows a huge lack of respect for active duty personnel, especially the infantry when a reservists says they do the same stuff.

[chris]

there are no Infantry units in the Reserves if you were unaware of it. the Guard has all the line units and SF. there was a split in the mid 90's i think. personally it was the dumbest thing to do.

oh and we are all infantry first and our MOS second. my DS told us that in 1989. that is the first thing everyone learns in the Army. even though we are not given the MOS of 11B we are all infantry first whent the preverbiale SHTF.

if anyone claims that they are a grunt, leg or what have you as their primary MOS unless they were 11B prior then that is just plain stupid. hope that makes sense. and don't tell me there are some stupid 11B guys we all know they are out there. i know they are there i have seen them.

[Scuba Steve33]

there are no Infantry units in the Reserves if you were unaware of it. the Guard has all the line units and SF. there was a split in the mid 90's i think. personally it was the dumbest thing to do.

oh and we are all infantry first and our MOS second. my DS told us that in 1989. that is the first thing everyone learns in the Army. even though we are not given the MOS of 11B we are all infantry first whent the preverbiale SHTF.

if anyone claims that they are a grunt, leg or what have you as their primary MOS unless they were 11B prior then that is just plain stupid. hope that makes sense. and don't tell me there are some stupid 11B guys we all know they are out there. i know they are there i have seen them.

I know there are none in the reserves. There shouldn't be any infantry positions in non-active units.

Everyone is not a rifleman first. That is complete bull****. Do POGs train with weapons? Of course. That doesn't make you a DICK.

There is a difference between shooting a weapon and fighting. A BIG one. The statement that POGs are infantry first pisses off the infantry more than anything else you can say, believe me. If you guys are all infantry first, why do we have 11Bs? Why does an infantryman train to fight if you guys can all do our job anyway? Like I said I haven't been trying to get into a pissing match over this stuff because we are all on the same team but if this is where this discussion is going I'm gone. That shows a total lack of respect for the infantry. If it was easy everyone would do it.

There was a POG convoy headed to my company's COP one night. Half my platoon got to spend a few nights there away from our COP. At the company COP they had showers and a small kitchen with real food. Our COP had no showers or food, just MREs. A buddy of mine and myself couldn't sleep so we were just hanging out shooting the ****. We could see the headlights of the convoy as they came down the road. The COP was in the bottom of a valley where it began to open up. There were a couple explosions and some bursts of PKM fire. Then silence. The convoy did not return fire at all. They rushed to the COP where they had two wounded. The lead truck took an RPG to the turret shield. A 19 year old girl was behind the gun (which wasn't loaded). The explosion blew her eyeballs out of her skull and blew her bottom jaw off, along with much of her throat. My buddy and I helped carry her to the first aid tent. We began administering first aid while someone went to grab the medics. She died a few minutes later. Why did no one fire a shot? They didn't know how to load or operate their crew served weapons. If the Taliban knew this they could have killed many more.

Yes, that is just one unfortunate example but please do not say that you are all infantry before your actual job. Like I said I'm not trying to get into a heated argument or anything and I believe there is a difference between a discussion of people who believe two different things and have no problem debating stuff. Like I said, I'm just going to stop if that's where this is going though. I respect anyone that wears a uniform but there is a big difference in all levels. Firing a weapon does not make you a fighter. That's like saying I had to use a computer to type a sworn statement so I am a computer tech.

For what it's worth, we didn't have any POGs at our COP. I don't consider line medics or line FOs POGs FYI. Those guys are in the platoon with the rest of us and right there on the ground doing the same stuff. We did a few mounted patrols but mostly dismounted. Too hard for the trucks to get to many areas and whenever we took them out we got blown up or lit up. We had to fix all of our trucks ourselves, but we're not mechanics. We did our own laundry (go dirty creeks) but we are not quartermasters. You get my point.

[Linh]

The reserve/national guard does have an option where you do basic training one summer and then the next summer do your advanced training so you won't miss out on school.

The GI Bill for reservist (without Active Duty) is very little.

For me I did reserve for 3 years and then I switched over to Active Duty, my current occupation and most occupations that I know of don't really care for your "experience" one weekend a month when you're applying for a job.

Now if your mos offer you some special training then yes that will be valuable but if it's one of those that doesn't exactly translate over then it's not that valuable.

Now after my 3 yrs on active duty it was easier to get a job.

[chris]

I know there are none in the reserves. There shouldn't be any infantry positions in non-active units.

that is above my paygrade and yours who makes those decisions.

Everyone is not a rifleman first. That is complete bull****. Do POGs train with weapons? Of course. That doesn't make you a DICK.

calm down francis. hell dude no where in my statement does it claim that we are infantry it is the first thing we learn and you also. i can guess that most 11B go to OSUT at Benning correct?

you know as well as i do the Army does stupid crap when it comes to training bases people go to.

There was a POG convoy headed to my company's COP one night. Half my platoon got to spend a few nights there away from our COP. At the company COP they had showers and a small kitchen with real food. Our COP had no showers or food, just MREs. A buddy of mine and myself couldn't sleep so we were just hanging out shooting the ****. We could see the headlights of the convoy as they came down the road. The COP was in the bottom of a valley where it began to open up. There were a couple explosions and some bursts of PKM fire. Then silence. The convoy did not return fire at all. They rushed to the COP where they had two wounded. The lead truck took an RPG to the turret shield. A 19 year old girl was behind the gun (which wasn't loaded). The explosion blew her eyeballs out of her skull and blew her bottom jaw off, along with much of her throat. My buddy and I helped carry her to the first aid tent. We began administering first aid while someone went to grab the medics. She died a few minutes later. Why did no one fire a shot? They didn't know how to load or operate their crew served weapons. If the Taliban knew this they could have killed many more.

i know what you mean. unfortunately that stuff happens. some units have really F'd up ROE's and i have also heard and read the ROE in Afganistan is pretty f'd up as well. more than likely their ROE and TTP's required them to get out of the kill zone and push through. even 4th ID did that at first in Iraq in 05 and later changed to stay in the fight. i rolled with 4th ID, 2/11 ACR, SF many times on raids and so on. take it for what it's worth. i have never claimed to be 11B nor will i. there is no point.

i can go on and on about stupid ROE's that units and Battalions and Brigades have and i can guess you know this as well. i believe to to shoot back without permission that is just plain stupid. the higher ups have no idea what is going on the ground. there is no need to get into a pissing match over the ROE it is written by people far away and have no clue. the worst part is the enemy knows this.

but getting all pissed off IMO about what people are trained in one thing. but claiming to be something else is wrong.

remember the golden rule on who not to piss off when down range. mechanics, supply and the cooks. piss off a mechanic and your Sh*t wont get fixed for along time i know the game. but that is unprofessional in the first place does it happen yes.

most 11B's i have ran into have less of an attitude. you treat people as you would like to be treated. i don't who you have ran into that have pissed you all off about Reservists, Guardsmen maybe you have ran into some real idiots. and they are out there.

[Scuba Steve33]

You did claim you were all infantry.

oh and we are all infantry first and our MOS second.

i know what you mean. unfortunately that stuff happens. some units have really F'd up ROE's and i have also heard and read the ROE in Afganistan is pretty f'd up as well. more than likely their ROE and TTP's required them to get out of the kill zone and push through. even 4th ID did that at first in Iraq in 05 and later changed to stay in the fight. i rolled with 4th ID, 2/11 ACR, SF many times on raids and so on. take it for what it's worth. i have never claimed to be 11B nor will i. there is no point.

i can go on and on about stupid ROE's that units and Battalions and Brigades have and i can guess you know this as well. i believe to to shoot back without permission that is just plain stupid. the higher ups have no idea what is going on the ground. there is no need to get into a pissing match over the ROE it is written by people far away and have no clue. the worst part is the enemy knows this.

but getting all pissed off IMO about what people are trained in one thing. but claiming to be something else is wrong.

remember the golden rule on who not to piss off when down range. mechanics, supply and the cooks. piss off a mechanic and your Sh*t wont get fixed for along time i know the game. but that is unprofessional in the first place does it happen yes.

most 11B's i have ran into have less of an attitude. you treat people as you would like to be treated. i don't who you have ran into that have pissed you all off about Reservists, Guardsmen maybe you have ran into some real idiots. and they are out there.

To be clear, I'm not pissed off or getting angry. I tried to stress that in my last post because it's impossible to tell tone through text. Your comment about being infantry started to tick me off and that is why I wanted to be clear on that subject.

The convoy that got hit did not NOT return fire because of any dumb ROEs. They exist, but that's not what happened here. We asked them why they didn't return fire. They told us the guns were not loaded and they didn't know what to do. You have to be kidding me. My platoon was lucky. Our COP was pretty remote and far from other coalition forces. We didn't have higher ups breathing down our necks when we got into TICs and enforcing ROEs. We did what you do in war.

I'm confused what you are trying to say. Twice you have said you didn't claim to be infantry but in your previous post you clearly stated it. Any MOS that calls themselves infantry besides infantry, line medics and line FOs couldn't be further from the truth. That was my point. Just because you have a weapon doesn't make you a fighter. I don't know why you think I was giving you attitude or all pissed off when I stressed twice that I did not want this to get into a heated argument. This thread already got hijacked as it is, I didn't want to start a flame war. I wasn't calling you a dick, if that's what you thought. I capitalized it because DICK stands for Dedicated Infantry Combat Killer. It was a joke using it.

As I said, we did not have any POGs at out COP. There was no one we could have pissed off, except the pilots who air dropped us our ammo, water and food but they never stayed. We did all our own maintenance on the trucks, ate MREs all year and didn't get any new supplies through ADO anyway so it didn't matter. We washed our own clothes in a nearby creek. There was no one but us out there.

I've ran into plenty of idiots in every branch, position or MOS. Again, I wasn't giving you attitude. You calling yourself infantry first was a direct insult to me and showed no respect for infantryman. Ask any active infantryman if he thinks everyone is a rifleman first. You won't just get a "no" you'll get a "**** no".

[Datdarkness]

well, didnt expect the thread to end up like this.......

I made the decision, im going Marines reserves as a 2111, small arms repair. i can always switch later on in a few years if i want to active or reclass. And hopefully can knock out a good amount of college without getting deployed. If i do get deployed, its nothing i didnt know could happen when i signed, and gladly out there to help my brothers and sisters next to me, thats all that matters.

Mods: feel free to close if thread gets too un-civil.

[Datdarkness]

Thank you to everyone who included Information on my situation, and what your experience has been.

[Snoopy47]

well, didnt expect the thread to end up like this.......

Mods: feel free to close if thread gets too un-civil.

Never mind these numb skulls. Go California Militia Reserve. You'd still have the boy scouts, and cub scouts to haze.

[chris]

You did claim you were all infantry.

ok were not. and the rest of the paragraph that i wrote stated that is the first thing we learn. it appears that you took this out the context of what i was trying to convey.

oh and we are all infantry first and our MOS second. my DS told us that in 1989. that is the first thing everyone learns in the Army. even though we are not given the MOS of 11B we are all infantry first whent the preverbiale SHTF.

being told that we are infantry first over and over again. has stuck we me since then. when it comes to a fight i really can't think of any other way to say it. that is when the basic Soldiers skills come in to play. and of course training.

To be clear, I'm not pissed off or getting angry. I tried to stress that in my last post because it's impossible to tell tone through text. Your comment about being infantry started to tick me off and that is why I wanted to be clear on that subject.

that you are correct on that.

The convoy that got hit did not NOT return fire because of any dumb ROEs. They exist, but that's not what happened here. We asked them why they didn't return fire. They told us the guns were not loaded and they didn't know what to do. You have to be kidding me. My platoon was lucky. Our COP was pretty remote and far from other coalition forces. We didn't have higher ups breathing down our necks when we got into TICs and enforcing ROEs. We did what you do in war.

i understand now. that was not stated in the previous post. i'm not surprised now that you said they did'nt know what to do. i have seen people get behind the .50 and be terrified of it. unforntunately this happens all to often in many units. your lucky th higher ups weren't up your guys butt all the time most of us aren't that lucky in that respect.

We did what you do in war .

i would'nt expect anything less from anyone else. i would do the same. again there is alot of red tape put over our guys in regards to ROE. do you agree in that respect?

I wasn't calling you a dick, if that's what you thought. I capitalized it because DICK stands for Dedicated Infantry Combat Killer. It was a joke using it.

i knew what you meant. i was told a different acronym for it. it has been along time since i have seen or heard it. our DS's called it Dedicated Individual Conditioned to Kill. there is no insult compared to that.

I'm confused what you are trying to say. Twice you have said you didn't claim to be infantry but in your previous post you clearly stated it. Any MOS that calls themselves infantry besides infantry, line medics and line FOs couldn't be further from the truth. That was my point. Just because you have a weapon doesn't make you a fighter. I don't know why you think I was giving you attitude or all pissed off when I stressed twice that I did not want this to get into a heated argument. This thread already got hijacked as it is, I didn't want to start a flame war.

the only thing that pissed me off is that the lack of respect people give to Reservists and National Guard and we both agree that anyone that wears the uniform deserves respect. and it goes both ways as well. i never tell anyone that i'm infantry ever in my career. was i trained in Basic Training like that yes. we all are. not 11B MOS that is why i stated we are not given the MOS. it's just the basics nothing more nothing less. and no just because you carry a rifle does'nt make you a fighter as 11B but it does'nt take away that most Soldiers will fight and they have the tools to do so. again text is a terrible way to convey a converstation.

As I said, we did not have any POGs at out our COP. There as no one we could have pissed off, except the pilots who air dropped us our ammo, water and food but they never stayed. We did all our own maintenance on the trucks, ate MREs all year and didn't get any new supplies through ADO anyway so it didn't matter. We washed our own clothes in a nearby creek. There was no one but us out there.

it must have been nice not to have the COC up your butt in that respect. i feel for you eating MRE's all year. i bet you can't look at another one and not have bad memories especially your gut telling hell no.

I've ran into plenty of idiots in every branch, position or MOS. Again, I wasn't giving you attitude. You calling yourself infantry first was a direct insult to me and showed no respect for infantryman. Ask any active infantryman if he thinks everyone is a rifleman first. You won't just get a "no" you'll get a "**** no".

again this is what we were taught back in the day and since it appears that you are retired right? your old enough to know that times have changed. this was a statment told to us many times in basic. and that basic riflemenship is really lacking these days in the Army especially the Reserves that this is something that is close to me since anything can happen on deployment and that substandard training is the norm these days. Commanders are too worried about their careers that the training of the Soldiers beneath them. it's all about the "numbers" and i hope that you know what that means. that kind of stuff is retarded.

well, didnt expect the thread to end up like this.......

I made the decision, im going Marines reserves as a 2111, small arms repair. i can always switch later on in a few years if i want to active or reclass. And hopefully can knock out a good amount of college without getting deployed. If i do get deployed, its nothing i didnt know could happen when i signed, and gladly out there to help my brothers and sisters next to me, thats all that matters.

Mods: feel free to close if thread gets too un-civil.

to the OP congrats on your decision and i wish the best of luck to you. don't drop the soap it could be a trap. LOL. it is the Marines ya know. i work with one and he's well "special" sometimes and an absolute perv. and you will meet some very interesting people in the Marines and in the service in general that will make you wonder.

again good luck to you. if you make this a career that will be a good choice as well. and if you can reclass then do so. with the way things are today it won't hurt to reclass if you can. small arms is a good MOS and it will keep you busy and the experience you get will last a lifetime. nothing wrong with knowing how to fix firearms. go to all the schools you can. it will help with promotion. it's all about what you put into it and what you get out of it.

the military is a unique experience and you will remember it for your entire life whether you only serve a few years or a 20. there will be bad times and plenty of them and lots of good times. people won't understand what you are saying half the time anyways.