Best way to go about PCSing to CA with your guns if you ARE a resident?

[Zequa]

If you have ties to CA - DL, car registration and paid taxes, it seems that PC 27585 would apply as being a returning resident.

However, For active duty military, PC 17000 , section (b) part (2) - In the case of a member of the Armed Forces of the United States, residency shall be deemed to be established when the individual was discharged from active service in this state.

This lists that residency won't be deemed until discharge. I'm going to CA with the expectation that I may not discharge from there, as I don't really want to stay in CA after I'd be done there.

Has anyone who is or was AD gone through this process about PCSing to CA if you already had ties to CA and brought back guns with you?

I have off-rosters as well, so that doesn't help the situation.

On top of that, I have several options, (1) gift them to my wife who isn't a CA resident, as it's legal to do in our current state. (2) PPT them to a friend who is not a CA resident but also PCSing to CA and then buy them back in CA through PPT, though this option is much more hectic.

My other two firearms are CA compliant but purchased out of state. I could just FFL to CA FFL those, even though it's a bother.

I'm interested in doing the legal thing here that saves the most trouble down the road. Thanks.

[RickD427]

If you have ties to CA - DL, car registration and paid taxes, it seems that PC 27585 would apply as being a returning resident.

However, For active duty military, PC 17000 , section (b) part (2) - In the case of a member of the Armed Forces of the United States, residency shall be deemed to be established when the individual was discharged from active service in this state.

This lists that residency won't be deemed until discharge. I'm going to CA with the expectation that I may not discharge from there, as I don't really want to stay in CA after I'd be done there.

Has anyone who is or was AD gone through this process about PCSing to CA if you already had ties to CA and brought back guns with you?

I have off-rosters as well, so that doesn't help the situation.

On top of that, I have several options, (1) gift them to my wife who isn't a CA resident, as it's legal to do in our current state. (2) PPT them to a friend who is not a CA resident but also PCSing to CA and then buy them back in CA through PPT, though this option is much more hectic.

My other two firearms are CA compliant but purchased out of state. I could just FFL to CA FFL those, even though it's a bother.

I'm interested in doing the legal thing here that saves the most trouble down the road. Thanks.

With regard to PC 17000(b), it provides "In the case of a member of the Armed Forces of the United States, residency shall be deemed to be established when the individual was discharged from active service in this state." It's important to note that the language is written in the future verb tense. When read in context with the remainder of the section, it's pretty clear that a military member becomes a California resident when they are discharged here. The section is completely silent as to what state the military member is a resident of prior to that time. We have to look to other statutes to answer that question. We have to look to other statutes to answer that question, and in your case that takes us to PC 17000(a) which would appear to make you a California resident.

IANAL, my comments are made as a retired LEO who spent many years enforcing this stuff. As a military member, you have access to a JAG who should be able to give you legal advice.

[Zequa]

Thanks Rick,

I've seen from other posts indicating that mil is exempt from needing to register while on active duty. If that were to be true, doesn't that mean that firearms can be imported and not be registered as long as I'm on active duty, but once I'd discharge if I were to stay in CA, they then need to be registered?

[RickD427]

Thanks Rick,

I've seen from other posts indicating that mil is exempt from needing to register while on active duty. If that were to be true, doesn't that mean that firearms can be imported and not be registered as long as I'm on active duty, but once I'd discharge if I were to stay in CA, they then need to be registered?

Basic intuition would suggest that California would treat military folks the same with regard to both importation and registration. But California doesn't do that.

The statutes controlling registration (PC 27560 and 17000(b)) make a specific exception for military folks.

The statute controlling importation by a current resident (PC 27585) don't make no exception for military folks.

[Dvrjon]

With regard to PC 17000(b), it provides "In the case of a member of the Armed Forces of the United States, residency shall be deemed to be established when the individual was discharged from active service in this state." It's important to note that the language is written in the future verb tense. When read in context with the remainder of the section, it's pretty clear that a military member becomes a California resident when they are discharged here. The section is completely silent as to what state the military member is a resident of prior to that time. We have to look to other statutes to answer that question. We have to look to other statutes to answer that question, and in your case that takes us to PC 17000(a) which would appear to make you a California resident.

IANAL, my comments are made as a retired LEO who spent many years enforcing this stuff. As a military member, you have access to a JAG who should be able to give you legal advice.

Rick and I have had a number of spirited discussions on this before, so it's no surprise that my view may differ.

I am equally unqualified to comment on this subject as I also am not a lawyer but I spent my military and civilian careers reading, writing, interpreting, defending (and assailing), and testifying on, legislation and regulations at the federal and state level.

From the top:

17000(a) As used in this part, until January 1, 2014, any reference to the term ?personal firearm importer? shall be deemed to mean ?personal handgun importer? and, on and after January 1, 2014, any reference to the term ?personal handgun importer? shall be deemed to mean ?personal firearm importer.? A ?personal handgun importer,? until January 1, 2014, and commencing January 1, 2014, a ?personal firearm importer? means an individual who meets all of the following criteria:[]

(6) The individual moved into this state on or after January 1, 1998, in the case of a handgun, or in the case of a firearm that is not a handgun, on or after January 1, 2014, as a resident of this state.
[]
(b) For purposes of paragraph (6) of subdivision (a):

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), residency shall be determined in the same manner as is the case for establishing residency pursuant to Section 12505 of the Vehicle Code.

(2) In the case of a member of the Armed Forces of the United States, residency shall be deemed to be established when the individual was discharged from active service in this state.

Armed Forces personnel are not deemed to be a resident for the purposes of this section until after they are discharged.

For Armed Services personnel, the resident requirement of section 17000(a)(6) cannot be met until after discharge so ALL of the requirements of 17000(a) cannot be met and the individual cannot be deemed a personal firearms importer.

The statute's silence on what state the military member was a resident of prior to their arrival in California is irrelevant. If it were relevant, the Legislature would have provided instruction on that issue. They did not and we don't get to do it for them now.

As Rick noted, you have access to the JAG. I sincerely doubt JAGs outside of California would be able to field this issue but maybe they'll hit up the California JAG who will service you. A resident has 60 days to take action on their firearms upon arrival. You need to chat with a California JAG soonest.

As always, JAGs probably won't defend you or even show up at your state trial.

[19K]

And to throw something into this. This is from the franchise tax board on residency while in the military if you are a Californian.

https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/personal/filing-situations/military.html

“Stationed outside of California
An individual domiciled in California when entering the military is considered a nonresident while stationed outside California on permanent change of station (PCS) orders.

We tax nonresidents on California sourced income”

A government agency says you aren’t a resident if you were stationed outside of California. Granted I came back to California before 2014, my off rosters were registered and processed just fine.