Copying CAC card during DROS CA

[pterrell]

So this was brought up in another thread and I didn't want to pollute that thread with a discussion. It was brought to my attention that copying your CAC is against the law. Fair enough, I'll admit when I'm wrong. Question is, though, how is active duty supposed to buy a firearm in California if we can't have our ID copied? You need a copy of your orders and your ID since most active duty has out of state drivers licenses.

[epilepticninja]

I've never sweated it, and mine has been being copied since '86.

[232_ray]

I've never sweated it, and mine has been being copied since '86.

CAC cards haven't been around that long. Been around since early mid 2000's.
Op there's Miltary box that gets check on the paper work. When they box gets checked only a military ID verification needs to be done to insure the ID is still valid and. Not expired and obviously that ur the person in the ID. When I used my military ID to purchase firearms it was on base so it could be different outside with the nasty civilians. Doubt I answered your question but maybe asking PMO or the exchange people how they do it would be a place to ask

[fritztkatt]

Quantico copies my id. Never thought anything of it... now I know...

[jrpowell3]

I didn't buy any guns when I was in....so I have no relevant experience. When I'd go shooting at Iron Sights, I always used my North Carolina driver's license, though.

[BarrettM99]

IDs and common access cards are not to be copied. Period. It's a violation of law.

Title 18, U.S. Code, Part I, Chapter 33, Section 701 and are punishable by fine and/or imprisonment.

The only exception to this policy (DOD Instruction 1000.13, Section 6.1.7) is that civilian and military medical providers are authorized to photocopy military ID as proof of insurance for the purposes of providing medical care to DoD beneficiaries.

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=63581

[09rubicon]

IDs and common access cards are not to be copied. Period. It's a violation of law.

Title 18, U.S. Code, Part I, Chapter 33, Section 701 and are punishable by fine and/or imprisonment.

The only exception to this policy (DOD Instruction 1000.13, Section 6.1.7) is that civilian and military medical providers are authorized to photocopy military ID as proof of insurance for the purposes of providing medical care to DoD beneficiaries.

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=63581

If you read further there is also an exemption for law enforcement in the process of a legal investigation. Otherwise you are absolutely correct.

[Gawernator]

They took my CAC to exempt me from the safety BS

[chris]

when I bought my handguns last year they only asked me to fill out a piece of paper with the information on my ID. since copying our CAC's isn't authorized.

[fritztkatt]

So they're supposed to have a form in leuie of copying the cac?

[Tacit Blue]

The Salesman at Turner's tried doing this to me. They photocopied it, then I decided to tell them to destroy it. All they need to do is verify it, then list your exemption on the DROS i.e. X26 Active Duty Military, or Reserve. There's NO need for them to photocopy a faxed copy to the DOJ.

I've seen how Turner's does paperwork they'll prob loose control of it..

For them it's simply a CYA move. Quick note, with a barcode scanner you can obtain your SSN, DOB,paygrade,etc from your CAC.

[RickD427]

IDs and common access cards are not to be copied. Period. It's a violation of law. (WRONG - Please see the text of the governing law below)

Title 18, U.S. Code, Part I, Chapter 33, Section 701 and are punishable by fine and/or imprisonment.

The only exception to this policy (DOD Instruction 1000.13, Section 6.1.7) is that civilian and military medical providers are authorized to photocopy military ID as proof of insurance for the purposes of providing medical care to DoD beneficiaries.

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=63581

BarrettM99,

I would strongly encourage you not to take your legal advice from the Navy News Service. As commonly occurs, the author of that story incorrectly summarized the provisions of the law.

Here is the exact text of the U.S. Code section that prohibits the photocopying of government identification documents:

Whoever manufactures, sells, or possesses any badge, identification card, or other insignia, of the design prescribed by the head of any department or agency of the United States for use by any officer or employee thereof, or any colorable imitation thereof, or photographs, prints, or in any other manner makes or executes any engraving, photograph, print, or impression in the likeness of any such badge, identification card, or other insignia, or any colorable imitation thereof, except as authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

Please note that the exceptions are provided where the copying is "authorized under regulations made pursuant to law." That a whole lot more than the medical provider exception that you cited.

I'm not familiar with the regulation governing FFLs (I'm not an FFL holder), but if there is a "regulation made pursuant to law" that calls for an FFL to make a copy of the ID, then they may freely do so without violating the law.

[allpoint]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrettM99 View Post
IDs and common access cards are not to be copied. Period. It's a violation of law.

Title 18, U.S. Code, Part I, Chapter 33, Section 701 and are punishable by fine and/or imprisonment.

The only exception to this policy (DOD Instruction 1000.13, Section 6.1.7) is that civilian and military medical providers are authorized to photocopy military ID as proof of insurance for the purposes of providing medical care to DoD beneficiaries.

If you read further there is also an exemption for law enforcement in the process of a legal investigation. Otherwise you are absolutely correct.

except as authorized under regulations made pursuant to law

If you read the whole thing carefully (Section 701) you would see, if the document is being copied for LEGAL purposes (pursuant to law) it is strickly legal to copy CAC. A lot of commanders will make their own rules through their legal sections of not copying but according to Title 18 it is legal to copy for LEGAL reasons.

[Germz]

I've heard this over the course of my whole career. as long as it's for legal purposes you are fine. Hell, I've had strip clubs photocopy my ID for credit card payments to the champagne room...

legal purposes...

[allpoint]

Just to add what CA DOJ says: www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/
8. What identification is required for a person to purchase a firearm?
Clear evidence of identity and age is defined as a valid California driver's license or a valid California identification card issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles. Military identification is also acceptable if accompanied by permanent duty station orders indicating a posting in California, but the dealer must retain copies of both documents.

Temporary driver licenses and temporary identification cards (issued without photo) are not accepted forms of proof of identity and age.