MARINE CORPS COMMANDERS ALLOWING MARINES TO DIE

[allpoint]

It's unbelievable how U.S. Marines are allowed to die like sitting ducks because of commanders PR. When I was active duty I would go to the armory every day and check out my M9 and I kept a box of ammo. Before the end of the day I would turn it back in. When I got my CCW I would carry my personal firearm daily. There was a list that would come out monthly from the armory of who hadn't check out and clean their weapon and I was never on that list. I've seen 18 year old Lance Corporals as point on patrol and clearing houses. I'm confident most Marines remember what they were taught and are better weapon and tactically trained than your local police and SWAT.

[Bullitt01]

Please define.

[C.W.M.V.]

Quite an accusation.

[dyson]

Prob referring to Chattanooga

[jaymz]

WTF are you talking about?

[essjay]

Prob referring to Chattanooga

That's what I'm thinking.

[The Soup Nazi]

So here's the deal:

Given the current risk/initiative adverse command climate which spans up all the way to the flag grade level, no installation commander is ever going to sign off on allowing Marines to carry weapons off duty on base. Even if you could quantatatively capture how many lives are saved from Marines carrying on base (which you empirically can't), the moment one firearm related incident occurs, that officer will get relieved no matter how high the net positive effect that allowing on base carrying affords. You can talk all you want about integrity or esprit de corps and this will probably piss you off but the Marine Corps is simply just another business subsidized by public funds.

So when I was stationed on Camp Pendleton I conducted a quick pro/con analysis of my breaking base installation directives by keeping my firearms in the barracks. Worst case scenario I'd be looking at a Summary Court Martial or a maxed out NJP, but the benefit of doing so would be to extend my life expectancy to whatever time my demise will otherwise come. In the end I decided to keep my guns and by some ingenuity on my part I passed every single health and comfort and vehicle inspection that I was subjected to. Now I'm not a s***bag Marine, I was a meritorious Corporal, meriteorious Sergeant, a 7 time Marine/NCO of the Quarter all the way up to the Regiment and Installation levels, and was written about in a White House Blog article, but there's a certain point where you realize that when the disobeyance of an order can bring in dividends multiple times greater than the punishment or cost that you have to personally absorb for doing so, you go ahead and do it. That's what I did but the market value you assign to your life and career may vary.

[71MUSTY]

Problem and blame lies with the Commander and Chief.

It's not like we didn't have warning that military would be targets.

It's not like nobody ever attacked our military personnel on US soil.


It's the same dumb mentality that got our people killed in Benghazi.

Lets cut personnel and security so we can spend that money buying votes.

[gumby]

It was a long time ago when I served. '74-'78, even then we could not have a firearm on the base. You checked out one from the armory at the beginning of your shift and returned it at the end of your shift. No personal weapons allowed, period.

[pjsig]

It was a long time ago when I served. '74-'78, even then we could not have a firearm on the base. You checked out one from the armory at the beginning of your shift and returned it at the end of your shift. No personal weapons allowed, period.

Times change, rules need to also change

[Cpl. Haas]

All this talk and campaigning to arm recruiters, or repeal the DoD Directive... I feel like there's a very simple and easy to accept compromise that would help in the interim: do what Obama (Of all people) did with the National Parks and simply pass a federal law stating carry of concealed weapons on-base is authorized if done in accordance with state law. Aka - if you have a CCW/CPL or live in a constitutional carry state, and have the ability to legally carry a firearm out in town, then that permit also extends onto base.

[dustoff31]

All this talk and campaigning to arm recruiters, or repeal the DoD Directive... I feel like there's a very simple and easy to accept compromise that would help in the interim: do what Obama (Of all people) did with the National Parks and simply pass a federal law stating carry of concealed weapons on-base is authorized if done in accordance with state law. Aka - if you have a CCW/CPL or live in a constitutional carry state, and have the ability to legally carry a firearm out in town, then that permit also extends onto base.

If I heard the news correctly this morning, a congressman is today introducing a bill to do exactly that.

OTOH, there have been several similar bills that came to naught over the past couple of years.

[Tactical Support]

Clinton Put in place the rules to disarm the bases and military offices.

[Cpl. Haas]

If I heard the news correctly this morning, a congressman is today introducing a bill to do exactly that.

OTOH, there have been several similar bills that came to naught over the past couple of years.

IIRC, there was a provision in the latest NDAA that would give installation commanders the authority to authorize personal firearms on-base. The problem, as I think someone pointed out above, is that it's very unlikely a base CO would take on the liability of saying "okay, I'll allow guns on-base". Alternatively, if the law was something to the effect of "personal firearms are allowed on-base, unless specifically outlawed by installation commander", there's a better chance a CO would simply go with it. If something goes wrong, he/she can always just point to the law and say "hey, you guys allowed it".

[Best sale]

So here's the deal:

there's a certain point where you realize that when the disobeyance of an order can bring in dividends multiple times greater than the punishment or cost that you have to personally absorb for doing so, you go ahead and do it. That's what I did but the market value you assign to your life and career may vary.

^^^^