FPC, SAF, Pate & Mandry v Garland - guns in Post Offices 2024

[BAJ475]

New suit to challenge US Post Office prohibition. Looks like I need to send $ to the FPC and SAF
If there is another thread please combine this post

[Preston-CLB]

This court challenge refers to carrying a weapon in US Post offices or Postal property.

https://saf.org/saf-files-federal-lawsuit-challenging-post-office-gun-ban/

-P

[Rickybillegas]

How ridiculous is it that you can't even bring a firearm on the property in a locked box and leave it in the car.
The whole 'going postal' thing was so overblown and reactionary based on a few isolated incidents.
Post offices are no more sensitive than many other locations.
And as we understand from Bruen dicta, so called 'sensitive place' restrictions are to be few and isolated.

[Rickybillegas]

This obnoxious federal law is WAY overdue for an overturning

[BAJ475]

This obnoxious federal law is WAY overdue for an overturning

It is not just the Post Office. From what I understand, it also applies to SS and VA offices.

[FourT6and2]

Interesting. I'm aware that you can't "carry" or "possess" a firearm on USPS property. But does that extend to actually shipping a firearm? For example, shipping a long-gun (rifle or shotgun) to an FFL or manufacturer?

[ldsnet]

This is long overdue. I hope a win here forces National Parks to change the "rules" for their buildings as well.

[Dan_Eastvale]

Don't see any signs at our post office. Pretty sure many customers carry there not knowing or ignoring the rule.

[Rickybillegas]

Don't see any signs at our post office. Pretty sure many customers carry there not knowing or ignoring the rule.

Probably so. I had no idea about these specific laws before joining calguns. The web of myriad laws is beyond most people's comprehension and ability to keep up with.
I know there is that "ignorance of the law is not an excuse" and you can be subject to prosecution. That doesn't make it right. It actually makes it more wrong in the sense that
laws are piled upon more laws and more laws making it beyond unreasonable for people who seek to be law abiding.

[Sgt Raven]

Don't see any signs at our post office. Pretty sure many customers carry there not knowing or ignoring the rule.

As 'mens rea' is a requirement in Federal criminal law per SCOTUS, wouldn't knowledge of the illegal act be required? Especially since it is a 'malum prohibitum' crime.

[Rickybillegas]

Has anybody read this preliminary ruling by a federal district judge? I wasn't aware this issue has already been partially adjudicated in district court in Fla. in plaintiff's favor.



A fairly good analysis of proper historical analogue within.



She even utters the dreaded 'not a historical twin' phrase that Roberts made infamous in Rahimi and for whom every anti-gun AG in the U.S. has seized upon ferociously claiming it justifies every gun control law ever proposed, and yet she manages to cut through the crap and get down to proper reasoning. Keep in mind, this order is from March '23 way before Rahimi. And here I thought Robert's was the inventor of such phrase, and I was wrong.

01122024ayala.pdf (thomsonreuters.com)

[Rickybillegas]

Her proper conclusion after a detailed analysis is that though an identical 'historical twin' is not required, it must be relevantly similar and the U.S. has not provided any such proper analogue related to post office prohibitions.

[Rickybillegas]

Polling places, legislative assemblies and courthouse prohibitions in early American tradition do not cut it and are NOT comparable analogues. See, the state AG's would argue (and indeed they do in this complaint)
that they are since they are government facilities and anything government meets the 'not historical twin' standard.

[Dvrjon]

Interesting. I'm aware that you can't "carry" or "possess" a firearm on USPS property. But does that extend to actually shipping a firearm? For example, shipping a long-gun (rifle or shotgun) to an FFL or manufacturer?

No. https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

[FourT6and2]

No. https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

So if it's illegal to posses a firearm in a post office, how does one ship a firearm without possessing it? A poster above said it's illegal to even have one in a locked container. But you can have one inside a cardboard box?