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Gun Free School Zone crime numbers 2024

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  • Librarian
    Admin and Poltergeist
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • Oct 2005
    • 44626

    Gun Free School Zone crime numbers 2024

    See https://ammo.com/articles/gun-free-z...hool-shootings

    Obvious note
    Regardless of political affiliation or thoughts on well-regulated militias and the right to bear arms, one thing is clear; what we?ve been doing for the past forty years isn?t working.
    ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

    Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
  • #2
    C.G.
    Calguns Addict
    • Oct 2005
    • 8153

    Good info to use in arguments, thank you; of course, most of it will fall on deaf ears with the antis.
    sigpic

    Comment

    • #3
      jeremiah12
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2013
      • 2065

      My wife is in her 37th year of teaching high school and I am in my 20th year. These findings do not surprise me. We both worked at a high school in north Stockton that has had many issues, including a couple of riots that resulted in a heavy police presence on campus for over a week twice (once that included 50 officers on motorcycles in the hallways surrounding the perimeter of the school and a full lock down during class time so students could not leave the class room for any reason. They could only use the restroom during passing period and administrators and police officers were in the restrooms to ensure there were no problems.

      Guns were confiscated from students weekly and the administration would often toss them in the trash in the evening if they could keep the news quiet about the kid being caught with a gun. The school has been monitored by the Federal Office of Civil Rights for several years because they have suspended and expelled too many Amish. The boundaries for the school population cover one of the most gang infested areas that those who know Stockton will not drive through even during the daylight hours. Every year, a handful of students who live in the area are murdered in gang related activities and that always spills onto campus.

      I left that school two years ago and transferred to one in Lodi and my wife moved this year to the same one in Lodi. It is in the same district but much calmer.

      I am not surprised by the findings. First, notice that 71% of the shooters had divorced parents. Most veteran teachers can identify the students in their classes that have divorced parents and those that do not. We are usually fairly accurate in determining which students live with a parent and step-parent.

      No matter how hard the divorced parents try to not let it affect their children, it does. A significant number of students with divorced parents learn to manipulate one against the other to take the focus off problems the student is having at school or the student just shuts down at school and enters a deep state of depression. If we are able to get the parents to come to school for a SST meeting, the parents spend most of the time arguing and blaming each other for the situation their child is in and we end up with no agreement as to what should be done. We are left with a weekly 20 minute visit with their counselor which does nothing. These are the ones that are in real danger of suicide. The boys are the ones that the most likely to make a statement by taking a few out before they take their own life.

      We are seeing a lot of mental health issues stemming from the COVID school closures. Most here knew that was a mistake. I knew it was a mistake and was more than willing to go back to the classroom because it was the right thing to do. I was in the high risk group for 3 reasons. I was trained as a biologist and majored in molecular genetics. My mother was an RN. I read the primary journal articles about COVID and knew the risks of death from contracting it were much lower than the CDC was reporting. I am old enough to have caught all the childhood diseases. I have not had even a cold over the last several years because I am with students all the time and that has exposed me to all the things that they get and pass around. For new teachers, they are constantly sick, after 4 or 5 years, they generally stop catching everything their students get.

      It took me almost two years of being back in the classroom before I got COVID from a student, and the majority of my students came down with COVID over that time. My immune system was working.

      I still have students who do not talk to anybody. They spend their day going from class to class and never say a single word to a teacher or another student. That is abnormal for a teenager. They are completely isolated. We have several that still wear masks and will not take them off, even though their parents tell them they do not need to wear them.

      About half of my students will not even pick up a pencil to do any class assignments. I have juniors that have 0 credits. A subset of these students disrupt the learning of other students. We cannot suspend them. We have to let them stay in the classroom. The Demorats passed laws that say we cannot suspend students for being disruptive or defiant, even if they disrupt other students from learning. All students have a right to an education so they have to be in the classroom even if they interfere with the education of other students while they are not getting an education themselves.

      All the laws against bullying are a joke. I see a student harassing and bullying another and report it, the kid doing the bullying will say I was just kidding around and did not mean it. Since there is no way to prove his intent, nothing can be done. So the kid being harassed daily just closes up and withdraws and eventually, when he has reached his breaking point, comes to school with his gun and his plans and starts shooting. He does not plan to live because he no longer has the will to live. He has told many about his problems and the adults at school and his parents have not been able to help him so he finally takes care of business himself. Usually, in the months leading up to it, you will see a record of disciplinary issues that escalate in severity. Often the first several issues do not get recorded or the student is just counseled because he has no real past record of disciplinary issues. Administrators have been trained to use progressive discipline. The first offense is counseling. The second offense is detention. The third offense is in-school suspension and maybe some conflict mediation where the student has to write down what they did wrong and how they will improve their behavior the next time. Then the next day is two days of in-school suspension. Then it is one day of at home suspension. Then 3 days of at home suspension with a follow up parent meeting.

      This is a series of little hand slaps and hoping the student learns from it.

      When a student is heading down the path to become a school shooter, they can easily get to the point of carrying out their plan before anyone in the front office realizes this kid needs serious help, now. A teacher may recognize it and report it and the teacher will be told that they are not an expert so they cannot make that assessment. It can only be done by a mental health expert and they will not have the student evaluated by a mental health expert because a mental health expert has not recommended the child be evaluated. A teacher cannot recommend to the parents that the child be evaluated because if the parents disagree, the parents will be all over the teacher for picking on their child.

      It is not surprising that slightly over half happened in schools with a student population of under 1,000. Those schools tend to be more rural or in smaller towns. Staff in those schools get a false sense of security that those things do not happen here so we do not have to take the safety precautions. It really is a pain to keep the doors locked at all times. To be secure, only an adult should be opening the door. Teachers have so many things to do and in a class period I can be interrupted an average of every 5 minutes to let someone in. A student has to go to the restroom. A note is coming from the office. A student is returning from the library or office. I might be at the back of the room and it would be real easy to have a student near the door open it. Teachers love to assign these jobs to students.

      Students have a tendency to just open the door without first looking outside to see who it is. Most students would not be able to recognize a person who belongs and one who does not. If I do not recognize the person and they are not wearing the proper badge, I am not opening the door. I am calling the office first. I was at a school where parents had no problem coming onto campus, going directly to the teacher's room, and then assaulting that teacher because of something their kid told them. There was no attempt to ask the teacher what happened. Their have been times when they assaulted the wrong teacher.

      For my classroom, I am the only one that opens the door. My first year teaching, I worked at a middle school whose back fence was against another gang infested neighborhood. When drug deals went bad, it was common for the parties to hop the fence and start shooting each other while running through the school grounds. We had 7 active shooting events from drug deals gone bad the year I was there. I moved to the high school after that. I was not being paid enough to be a target and I was not allowed to be armed and given a fighting chance to survive if they decided to come through my room.

      At the high school, we had a principal that often made the rounds and made sure teachers kept their doors closed and locked. The ones that did not got one warning, then were written up and given a directive to keep their doors closed and locked at all times. The next time they were written up for insubordination. That is the one thing tenure does not protect a teacher from. That can result in immediate dismissal and the union and their attorneys cannot defend against it. After two teachers were dismissed, the rest kept their doors closed and locked at all times except during passing periods.

      Small schools also have a small budget and cannot afford the high cost of the up to date security devices. People lose keys so doors get propped open because there is not the budget to make new keys. People do not want to have to use a key to open the same door several times a day.

      When security is considered, everybody assumes the threat will come through the front gate. They never consider a threat coming over the fence at the back of the school which rarely has any cameras and is only used occasionally for sports or PE.

      The button to activate a lock down is in the office. The main entrance to funnel all visitors into the school is through the main office. The secretary buzzes every one in because she has no way of knowing what their intent is. There are all sorts of delivery people and people dropping things off for students. They could be relatives you have never seen before or a friend of a friend.

      You let a bad guy in and they start the shooting in the main office and all of a sudden the person whose job is to push the lock down button is taken out. That is what happened at Uvalde.

      At my school, every administrator, administrative staff person, PE teacher, and other staff that carries a walkie talkie and district cell phone on campus as part of their job can signal a lock down. That lock down signal will automatically go to the local PD and in Lodi that will cause 10 squad cars to be at the school in less than 2 minutes. There are already two SROs on campus and they are trained to immediately start searching for the active shooting. There is no waiting for backup.

      Finally, there will be students who know what the shooter was planner well in advance. A few will have told their parents or school staff and been told they are just making up rumors. The kid is just going through a rough time, or would never do that. These will not be the top academic students or the star athletes. These will be academically average kids that are mostly overlooked by most of the school staff.

      In the Perry Iowa shooting, these were the students that actually reported what the shooter was planning to the local police chief and the principal before winter break and were told that that kid would never do anything like that. They should both his social media posts and were told the kid was just weird like he always had been and it meant nothing. They even went to their parents and were told to drop it.

      They put it out on social media. The Iowa State Police caught it after the shooting and interviewed these kids and collected the information they had downloaded from social media posts. There was a lot swept under the rug and a similar incident several years ago that did not make the national news. The school district, the superintendant, and the principal were sued by a former student over accusations related to allowing bullying to happen to a student and then having him arrested when the SRO allowed several members of the football team to jump in in the hallway but when he decided to fight back, he was the only one arrested. Students cell phone videos convinced the judge he was being truthful and the school was trying to cover it up.
      Anyone can look around and see the damage to the state and country inflicted by bad politicians.

      A vote is clearly much more dangerous than a gun.

      Why advocate restrictions on one right (voting) without comparable restrictions on another (self defense) (or, why not say 'Be a U.S. citizen' as the requirement for CCW)?

      --Librarian

      Comment

      • #4
        Sgt Raven
        Veteran Member
        • Dec 2005
        • 3784

        Originally posted by jeremiah12
        My wife is in her 37th year of teaching high school and I am in my 20th year.



        .......snip.......


        You let a bad guy in and they start the shooting in the main office and all of a sudden the person whose job is to push the lock down button is taken out. That is what happened at Uvalde.
        ....snip......

        That is not what happened at Uvalde.


        The Uvalde massacre began after the 18-year-old gunman entered the school through a door that could only be locked from the outside then got inside a classroom that had a busted lock

        The Uvalde massacre began after the 18-year-old gunman entered the school through a door that could only be locked from the outside and then got inside a classroom that had a busted lock.
        sigpic
        DILLIGAF
        "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice"
        "Once is Happenstance, Twice is Coincidence, Thrice is Enemy Action"
        "The flak is always heaviest, when you're over the target"

        Comment

        • #5
          WithinReason
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2013
          • 746

          Interesting article.
          sigpic

          Comment

          • #6
            Rickybillegas
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2022
            • 1527

            Gun free zones are a joke and are ineffective.
            They are almost entirely a 'feel good' ism and I don't have data, but I'll bet they actually do more harm than good. I would bet gun free zones have cost more lives than saved them.

            What they do is tell law abiding citizens not to carry or else.
            Anyone else will do as they please, or as some do with nefarious intentions, seek out those gun free zones to wreak their havoc'

            The only way 'gun free' zones would actually work is when there are checkpoints at all points of entry, metal detectors and/or firearm detection devices and properly armed and trained security at a venue, or courthouse.
            These would be far and few between.

            The term 'sensitive places' is a misnomer. The more 'sensitive' a place, the more carry should be allowed for public safety. That is unless security as described above is provided.

            Comment

            • #7
              BAJ475
              Calguns Addict
              • Jul 2014
              • 5041

              And how many of those shootings in school zones were committed by a person with a CCW?

              Comment

              • #8
                DentonandSasquatchShow
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2018
                • 1295

                Morals have dropped shooting have gone up. Pretty simple.
                I will stand for truth even if I stand alone.

                The last time I had faith in the News was when it was with Huey Lewis.

                Comment

                • #9
                  AlmostHeaven
                  Veteran Member
                  • Apr 2023
                  • 3808

                  Originally posted by Rickybillegas
                  Gun free zones are a joke and are ineffective.
                  They are almost entirely a 'feel good' ism and I don't have data, but I'll bet they actually do more harm than good. I would bet gun free zones have cost more lives than saved them.

                  What they do is tell law abiding citizens not to carry or else.
                  Anyone else will do as they please, or as some do with nefarious intentions, seek out those gun free zones to wreak their havoc'

                  The only way 'gun free' zones would actually work is when there are checkpoints at all points of entry, metal detectors and/or firearm detection devices and properly armed and trained security at a venue, or courthouse.
                  These would be far and few between.

                  The term 'sensitive places' is a misnomer. The more 'sensitive' a place, the more carry should be allowed for public safety. That is unless security as described above is provided.
                  Imagine a gun-free neighborhood and how many nefarious actors would freely buglarize and invade the population.
                  A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

                  The Second Amendment makes us citizens, not subjects. All other enumerated rights are meaningless without gun rights.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Sgt Raven
                    Veteran Member
                    • Dec 2005
                    • 3784

                    Originally posted by WithinReason
                    Interesting article.

                    I'm glad I searched before posting. Originally they said a teacher had propped the door open. That turned out false.
                    sigpic
                    DILLIGAF
                    "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice"
                    "Once is Happenstance, Twice is Coincidence, Thrice is Enemy Action"
                    "The flak is always heaviest, when you're over the target"

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      BAJ475
                      Calguns Addict
                      • Jul 2014
                      • 5041

                      Originally posted by AlmostHeaven
                      Imagine a gun-free neighborhood and how many nefarious actors would freely burglarize and invade the population.
                      That is why there are no gun-free neighborhoods in Idaho. I attended the Republican Caucus in Hayden, Idaho yesterday. As I entered, there was a sign next to the door that said: "No Open Carry." I commented that the sign violated the State's constitution, and got a few nods.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        AlmostHeaven
                        Veteran Member
                        • Apr 2023
                        • 3808

                        Originally posted by BAJ475
                        That is why there are no gun-free neighborhoods in Idaho. I attended the Republican Caucus in Hayden, Idaho yesterday. As I entered, there was a sign next to the door that said: "No Open Carry." I commented that the sign violated the State's constitution, and got a few nods.
                        Gun-free neighborhoods mainly exist outside the United States. Even in liberal areas within America, I doubt a single block truly has no armed citizens, other than unpopulated land.
                        A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

                        The Second Amendment makes us citizens, not subjects. All other enumerated rights are meaningless without gun rights.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Dan_Eastvale
                          Calguns Addict
                          • Apr 2013
                          • 9157

                          Gun Free Zones makes the gullible public believe there are NO guns in these areas. Yeah, no lawful guns. Which makes the idea completely ridiculous. The result, zero protection from the perps and contributes to far more victims by banning the high countering ability of lawful CCW holders in the schools and elsewhere.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            jeremiah12
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2013
                            • 2065

                            Originally posted by Sgt Raven
                            That is not what happened at Uvalde.





                            https://apnews.com/article/politics-...725ee2235e4a3b
                            You are right, that was Sandy Hook.

                            When you try to read all the school shooting incidents,
                            they all blend together.

                            Still, teachers and other staff still leave doors propped open daily and the back sides of schools are never considered as access points and left unsecured.

                            We all know GFSZ are just a feel good response and do nothing to protect students. Only armed good guys that are actually at the schools will provide the best protection. The other commonality not mentioned in the article is most shooters do a significant amount of planning and study previous shooters and want to be remember for having the highest body count. They do not plan to survive. Having armed good guys on site to end it quickly will deter future shooters and just maybe some will forgo the school shooting part and just take themselves out first.
                            Anyone can look around and see the damage to the state and country inflicted by bad politicians.

                            A vote is clearly much more dangerous than a gun.

                            Why advocate restrictions on one right (voting) without comparable restrictions on another (self defense) (or, why not say 'Be a U.S. citizen' as the requirement for CCW)?

                            --Librarian

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Silence Dogood
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2018
                              • 854

                              Thanks for the article Librarian.

                              Another big take away:
                              The top 10 states also have the top 10 populations. Population density has a stronger correlation with school-related shooting incidents than firearm ownership or legislation.
                              Although from the table listing the top ten states, it looks to me that population overall is more closely correlated than density.

                              I also really appreciated the "(Federal) Firearm Legislation for the Past 80 Years" graphic.

                              Comment

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