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SCOTUS grants Cert in Garland v Cargill

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  • #16
    NATO762
    Member
    • Apr 2019
    • 404

    Originally posted by DentonandSasquatchShow
    Legally the ATF can't ban anything. The way it is supposed to work is they make recommendations to Congress and then Congress votes on a law.
    Yes but, the problem is they have recently been making their own regulations without any oversight. Hence the lawsuit(s).
    "Never! Jesus Christ, what dont you understand about never?"

    -Sen. Joe Manchin on eliminating the filibuster

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    • #17
      AlmostHeaven
      Veteran Member
      • Apr 2023
      • 3808

      Originally posted by NATO762
      Yes but, the problem is they have recently been making their own regulations without any oversight. Hence the lawsuit(s).
      Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo will prune the powers of the ATF more than even these specific gun rights cases.
      A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

      The Second Amendment makes us citizens, not subjects. All other enumerated rights are meaningless without gun rights.

      Comment

      • #18
        IVC
        I need a LIFE!!
        • Jul 2010
        • 17594

        Originally posted by deckhandmike
        Yeah, I know. But does there decision against the ATF effect us on the state level since they where already illegal in CA?
        Nothing changes at the state level and the decision won't even be about the legality of any particular hardware or about 2A. This is not about a law at all, this is about the government's ability to "manufacture" laws through regulation.

        The end result here is that the ATF won't be able to use creative reimagination of the legislative intent. Instead, they will have to go to congress and ask them to pass a law if they believe the current law should be changed. Then we would challenge such law(s) on constitutional grounds if they overstepped on 2A grounds.

        As it is, this lawsuit will eliminate any ATF regulations that are outside their mandate so people in free states, where there are no laws against bump stocks, won't have "imperial entanglements" with the feds and will be free to live.
        sigpicNRA Benefactor Member

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        • #19
          AlmostHeaven
          Veteran Member
          • Apr 2023
          • 3808

          Originally posted by IVC
          Nothing changes at the state level and the decision won't even be about the legality of any particular hardware or about 2A. This is not about a law at all, this is about the government's ability to "manufacture" laws through regulation.

          The end result here is that the ATF won't be able to use creative reimagination of the legislative intent. Instead, they will have to go to congress and ask them to pass a law if they believe the current law should be changed. Then we would challenge such law(s) on constitutional grounds if they overstepped on 2A grounds.

          As it is, this lawsuit will eliminate any ATF regulations that are outside their mandate so people in free states, where there are no laws against bump stocks, won't have "imperial entanglements" with the feds and will be free to live.
          This Supreme Court term features both Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo and Garland v. Cargill. Prepare for one of the most consequential June opinion releases in decades.
          A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

          The Second Amendment makes us citizens, not subjects. All other enumerated rights are meaningless without gun rights.

          Comment

          • #20
            Baja Daze
            Senior Member
            • Jul 2011
            • 921

            Originally posted by AlmostHeaven
            This Supreme Court term features both Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo and Garland v. Cargill. Prepare for one of the most consequential June opinion releases in decades.

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            • #21
              DrjonesUSA
              Veteran Member
              • Dec 2005
              • 4680

              Originally posted by AlmostHeaven
              This Supreme Court term features both Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo and Garland v. Cargill. Prepare for one of the most consequential June opinion releases in decades.
              Can you please explain why it's so consequential?

              Esp. the Bright Enterprises; what's that one about?

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              • #22
                riderr
                Calguns Addict
                • Sep 2013
                • 6351

                I humbly assume, SCOTUS won't address the legality of the bumpstocks, instead will put restrictions on the government agencies to make up BS laws. This will not change the bumpstock situation in Cali, but the other 49 states will get a relief.

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                • #23
                  AlmostHeaven
                  Veteran Member
                  • Apr 2023
                  • 3808

                  Originally posted by DrjonesUSA
                  Can you please explain why it's so consequential?

                  Esp. the Bright Enterprises; what's that one about?
                  Why spend so much precious Second Amendment community resources on litigating individual gun regulations when the Supreme Court could gut the source of administrative power entirely?



                  Loper Bright Enterprises is a family‐​owned herring fishing company that operates in New England waters. Herring fishing is hard work on a small boat, and every inch of space is valuable for storing supplies, fishermen, and the catch. Nonetheless, a National Marine Fisheries Service ("NMFS") regulation requires that herring fishing boats allow an additional person on board to serve as a monitor, tracking compliance with federal regulations. Not only does this monitor take up limited space, but the fishermen must also pay the monitor's salary of around $700 per day. Overall, the regulation reduces fishing profits by about 20%. If fishing boats decline to carry a monitor, they are prohibited from fishing for herring.

                  Loper Bright and other fisheries sued to challenge this rule, arguing that the NMFS lacked statutory authority to force them to pay for these monitors. Although the statute at issue says nothing about industry funding for government monitors, the district court surprisingly held that the statute clearly authorized the rule. Loper Bright appealed, and the D.C. Circuit held that the statute was ambiguous but deferred to the agency's interpretation under the Chevron doctrine. Loper Bright has now asked the Supreme Court to grant review of its case, and Cato - joined by the Liberty Justice Center - has filed an amicus brief supporting that petition.

                  In our brief, we urge the Supreme Court to take this case as an opportunity to reconsider and overrule Chevron v. NRDC (1984), a controversial decision that forces courts to defer to an agency's interpretation of "ambiguous" statutes. Chevron requires a court to ask first if a statute is unambiguous. If the statute is clear, then the court applies that clear meaning. If, however, the statute is ambiguous, the court moves to the next step and defers to the agency's interpretation so long as it is reasonable, even if it is not the best interpretation.

                  Chevron is unconstitutional for several reasons. It gives judicial power - the power to interpret the meaning of the law - to the administrative state within the Executive Branch. The Constitution, however, grants all judicial power to the Judicial Branch. Chevron is also unconstitutional because it biases the courts towards the agencies, stripping the judiciary of impartiality and denying litigants basic due process. But a third reason, and the focus of our brief, is that Chevron deference is ahistorical, arising not out of the original understanding of the Constitution but rather out of the administrative bloat of the New Deal era.

                  As our brief explains, in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, courts only gave the executive branch's interpretation of a statute persuasive weight if it was long‐​held and was originally made contemporaneously with the enactment of the statute. This early historical practice in the courts was very different from the modern Chevron deference, which gives the agency's interpretation nearly binding authority even if that interpretation was made as recently as during the course of the litigation itself. Chevron deference, along with other versions of mid‐​twentieth century deference, only arose because of the New Deal's agency explosion. It is a departure from the traditional role of courts, not a continuation of it.

                  Our brief also shows, through an empirical analysis of over 140 recent appellate cases, that courts of appeals still defer under Chevron with regularity, despite the Supreme Court's increasing reluctance to invoke the doctrine. Chevron will not fade away completely until the Supreme Court overrules it. The Supreme Court should put an end to Chevron deference because it is ahistorical, because it unconstitutionally gives judicial power to the executive branch, and because it biases the judiciary in favor of the government. Loper Bright's case is a perfect opportunity for the Supreme Court to overrule Chevron and reclaim the judiciary's independence.


                  The Supreme Court ultimately did grant certiorari to this case. Far greater than what any individual gun rights lawsuit against the ATF could feasibly achieve, Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo has the bright potential to massively curtail the power of the entire administrative state.
                  A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

                  The Second Amendment makes us citizens, not subjects. All other enumerated rights are meaningless without gun rights.

                  Comment

                  • #24
                    Sgt Raven
                    Veteran Member
                    • Dec 2005
                    • 3768

                    Originally posted by DrjonesUSA
                    Can you please explain why it's so consequential?

                    Esp. the Bright Enterprises; what's that one about?

                    Because it will strike down Chevron deference once and for all.
                    sigpic
                    DILLIGAF
                    "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice"
                    "Once is Happenstance, Twice is Coincidence, Thrice is Enemy Action"
                    "The flak is always heaviest, when you're over the target"

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