Biden Ghost Gun Regs

[CandG]

It reads like that section only applies to FFL's who buy already-built, unserialized firearms. Meaning if someone tries to sell a built 80% to a pawn shop, the pawn shop then has to serialize it. I haven't read the whole thing yet but it doesn't sound like that applies to regular dudes building kits at home. Hope I'm not wrong.

I agree, I've been reading through the regulations a bit further and found this:

At the same time, nothing in the proposed rule restricted persons who are not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms from making their own firearms without markings solely for personal use, nor did the proposed rule require individuals to mark PMFs when they occasionally acquire them for a personal collection, or sell or transfer them from a personal collection to unlicensed in-State residents in accordance with Federal, State, and local law. Further, the NPRM would not require FFLs to accept any PMFs, or to mark PMFs themselves, or to provide services to place identification marks
on PMFs.

That sounds, to me, like the only time a homebuild needs to be serialized is in the event that it somehow gets transferred to/through an FFL (which I'm pretty sure was always the case)

Honestly it sort of sounds to me like these new regulations are just a bunch of smoke and mirrors, mostly just administrative changes that reflect already-existing caselaw. I don't see any substantive changes in it at all. And I've read most of it now, some pages twice. Hopefully someone who is better at reading this stuff can clarify.

[B yond]

Criminals breaking laws?

Better make more laws!

[gobler]

Just one more unconstitutional rule to ignore. FJB.. Most Gun Rights Groups are preparing to get this stayed immediately..

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[CandG]

Alright, I've concluded my completely unprofessional analysis of the text of the regulations, and have concluded that there is only ONE thing that this changes for us.

Page 97:

a partially complete billet or blank of a frame or receiver is a “frame or receiver” when it is sold, distributed, or possessed with a compatible jig or template, allowing a person using online instructions and common hand tools to complete the frame or receiver efficiently, quickly, and easily “to function as a frame or receiver.” ... manufacturers will be able to continue to obtain unfinished billets or blanks from their suppliers for further manufacture without requiring that the producer be licensed, mark such items, or maintain records of production and disposition.

In layman's terms (and existing California-specific laws aside):

1. People can still make firearms at home for personal use, the same as before.
2. You don't need to serialize it or fill out a 4473 when you do so, the same as before.
3. Prohibited person cannot make firearms at home, the same as before.
4. You cannot sell the finished firearm to an FFL without a serial number, the same as before.
5. You can still buy an 80% receiver, the same as before.
6. You can still buy jigs, templates, tools, etc., the same as before.
7. The only thing that is new, that you now cannot do, is buy a 80% receiver and a jig/template at the same time from the same seller.
8. After you've bought your 80% receiver from one seller, and jigs/templates from another seller, you can use them to make a firearm at home for personal use, the same as before.

But once again, IANAL, DYOR, etc etc. But in my opinion, worth every penny you're paying for it, these new regulations essentially changed nothing, except make it so you can't buy jigs and 80% receivers in the same transaction anymore. Buying separately from different sellers is fine. But of course, Biden claims a massive victory for "gun safety"

[steadyrock]

Alright, I've concluded my completely unprofessional analysis of the text of the regulations, and have concluded that there is only ONE thing that this changes for us.



In layman's terms (and existing California-specific laws aside):

1. People can still make firearms at home for personal use, the same as before.
2. You don't need to serialize it or fill out a 4473 when you do so, the same as before.
3. Prohibited person cannot make firearms at home, the same as before.
4. You can still buy an 80% receiver, the same as before.
5. You can still buy jigs, templates, tools, etc., the same as before.
6. You cannot sell it to an FFL without a serial number, the same as before.
7. The only thing that is new, that you now cannot do, is buy a 80% receiver and a jig/template at the same time from the same seller.
8. After you've bought your 80% receiver from one seller, and jigs/templates from another seller, you can use them to make a firearm at home for personal use, the same as before.

But once again, IANAL, DYOR, etc etc. But in my opinion, worth every penny you're paying for it, these new regulations essentially do nothing, except make it so you can't buy jigs and 80% receivers in the same transaction anymore. But of course, Biden claims a massive victory for "gun safety"

[spyde12]

He's referring to buying them at the same time from the same vendor... Not using them as the same time.

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[CandG]

Wouldn’t “possessed” mean “possessed”? Unless people plan to freehand their lowers, having a chunk of metal and a template in your possession at the same time now makes you a terrorist?


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No. Having them is fine. Possessing both together is fine. Even using them to build a firearm is fine. Nothing changed there.

The only thing you cannot do, now, is buy them both together from the same seller. Buying separately from different sellers is still totally fine, according to my reading of the text.

The minor inconvenience of having to do two transactions instead of just one, is what this 364 page document accomplished.

[abinsinia]

No. Having them is fine. Possessing both together is fine. Even using them to build a firearm is fine. Nothing changed there.

The only thing you cannot do, now, is buy them both together from the same seller. Buying separately from different sellers is still totally fine, according to my reading of the text.

The minor inconvenience of having to do two transactions instead of just one, is what this 364 page document accomplished.

The other thing to consider is that most companies have already converted to something similar to this process .. Not that long ago polymer 80 got raided for the buy build shoot kits, but it wasn't illegal at that time just AFT said it was illegal.

Most of the companies selling %80 after this raid started selling the jig as a separate part and not together with the frame.

I am still considering that there could be something much worse inside these changes, but it doesn't seem like the hysteria fits at this moment.

[numpty]

This comment gave me autism.

You sound like a typical CA gun owner.

Open your eyes dude, you honestly believe the government actually cares about your safety?

Thanks goodness Biden did this! All criminals will now obey the law and stop manufacturing their own guns illegally

Exactly! Since the criminals can't make their own guns then they'll know once they buy a serialized one legally that it can be traced back to them. And if the criminals know that their gun will be traced back to them if they use it in a crime, then they won't do the crime. Simple logic.

[steadyrock]

[RangerRoy]

[CandG]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7nFWDFB_ygk

The Armed Scholar does a good job of translating. I like the way he dumbs it down into cliff notes.

He seems to have the same opinion as I posted above:

• Unserialized 80% receivers/frames - still ok
• Jigs/tools for finishing 80% receivers/frames - still ok
• Buying those things separately, possessing them together, and using them to make a finished unserialized firearm for yourself - all still ok (but already-existing CA serialization laws still apply)
• Unserialized 80% receivers/frames that include jigs/tools sold together as a kit - now can't be sold. That's the only new change that affects 80% firearm hobbyists - you have to buy those things separately now. Most 80% retailers had already moved to doing that in recent years anyways.

In summary, the anti-2a politicians and media are touting a massive victory, while pro-2a groups and media are throwing a tantrum, when in reality not much has effectively changed.

There is NOTHING in the new regulations that say anything about having to serialize barrels, triggers, springs, etc. I don't know where those claims came from (possibly from an older version of the proposed regulations?). Under these new regs, you'll still be able to buy, for example, an AR lower parts kit or even a complete AR barreled upper without needing a serial or needing to go through an FFL. You can even continue to order those "everything except the stripped lower" AR build kits shipped straight to your doorstep.

The (only) other relevant change made by these new regulations, which pertains to serializing both receivers in a "split receiver" firearm design:

It only applies to future firearm designs that don't exist yet. Split-receiver designs such as the AR-pattern continue to be immune from needing both receiver halves serialized, because they are not a new design - existing firearm designs are exempt from the new split-receiver serialization requirement. Only new gun designs that operate in a mechanically different way from existing firearm designs will need both receivers serialized going forward - all currently existing firearm designs (AR pattern, AK pattern, SCAR pattern, etc) are exempt from needing both receiver halves serialized.

[scout II]

Are they wanting to put serial numbers on complete AR uppers assemblies? And will they have to be shipped to an FFL and treated just like a complete AR rifle? Will complete slide assemblies for pistols like the Glock be treated this way?

[abinsinia]

Are they wanting to put serial numbers on complete AR uppers assemblies? And will they have to be shipped to an FFL and treated just like a complete AR rifle? Will complete slide assemblies for pistols like the Glock be treated this way?

No. No changes to uppers on existing designs.

[steadyrock]

Are they wanting to put serial numbers on complete AR uppers assemblies? And will they have to be shipped to an FFL and treated just like a complete AR rifle? Will complete slide assemblies for pistols like the Glock be treated this way?

Armed Scholar's video addresses this specifically. In short, the only place where a serial number and accompanying DROS might be required is on a part where it would normally be required, in a non-80% scenario. E.g., frames and lowers. Amazingly, it sounds like we are not going to have to DROS buffer springs in the near future.