Homemade handguns illegal in 2015?

[Bolt_Action]

With the end of the SSE in sight, does this mean that next year there will be no legal way to manufacture a homemade handgun in CA (e.g. from an 80% 1911 receiver), since any homemade handgun cannot be previously listed on the roster, and therefore would have to be considered an "unsafe handgun"?

If so, would it be legal to finish the machining of an 80% receiver *outside* of CA (e.g. AZ, international waters, etc.) and then import the finished gun into CA the next day? My understanding is that the importation of unsafe handguns is legal, so long as they are for your own personal use and they are not otherwise illegal, correct?

[Tincon]

Wrong forum, but read this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=984946

[mshill]

and then import the finished gun into CA the next day? My understanding is that the importation of unsafe handguns is legal, so long as they are for your own personal use and they are not otherwise illegal, correct?

Incorrect. A resident of CA may not import. A non-resident may move to CA with off roster guns (provided they are not AWs as defined by CA law), being a resident of another state, and becoming a resident must register firearms within 60 (?) days.

[Bolt_Action]

Incorrect. A resident of CA may not import. A non-resident may move to CA with off roster guns (provided they are not AWs as defined by CA law), being a resident of another state, and becoming a resident must register firearms within 60 (?) days.

Not saying you're wrong, but do you know where it says a CA resident may not import? I know a CA resident cannot *purchase* a firearm in another state, but I don't know of any restriction on a CA resident *manufacturing* in another state. But if there's a specific ban on a CA resident bringing personally owned firearms in from outside the state, what happens if you have a gun collection in another state which you decide one day (for whatever reason) that you want to bring into CA?

P.S. for future reference, which forum should I have used?

[ke6guj]

federal law would appear to prohibit it.

If you make it while out of your home state means that you have obtained the firearms outside the state and it would be illegal to transport it back to CA.

No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm

[Tincon]

P.S. for future reference, which forum should I have used?

The one it has been moved to.

Not saying you're wrong, but do you know where it says a CA resident may not import?

At the moment I can't think of one. AB 1609 may make some changes.

[ke6guj]

At the moment I can't think of one. AB 1609 may make some changes.

AB1609 adds this effective 1/1/15

SEC. 4. Section 27585 is added to the Penal Code, to read:
27585. (a) Commencing January 1, 2015, a resident of this state shall not import into this state, bring into this state, or transport into this state, any firearm that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained on or after January 1, 2015, from outside of this state unless he or she first has that firearm delivered to a dealer in this state for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to or affect any of the following:
(1) A licensed collector who is subject to and complies with Section 27565.
(2) A dealer, if the dealer is acting in the course and scope of his or her activities as a dealer.
(3) A wholesaler, if the wholesaler is acting in the course and scope of his or her activities as a wholesaler.
(4) A person licensed as an importer of firearms or ammunition or licensed as a manufacturer of firearms or ammunition, pursuant to Section 921 et seq. of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto if the importer or manufacturer is acting in the course and scope of his or her activities as a licensed importer or manufacturer.
(5) A personal firearm importer who is subject to and complies with Section 27560.
(6) A person who complies with subdivision (b) of Section 27875.
(7) A person who complies with subdivision (b), (c), or (d) of Section 27920.
(8) A person who is on the centralized list of exempted federal firearms licensees pursuant to Section 28450 if that person is acting in the course and scope of his or her activities as a licensee.
(9) A firearm regulated pursuant to Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 18710) of Division 5 of Title 2 acquired by a person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 18900) of Chapter 1 of Division 5 of Title 2, if that person is acting within the course and scope of his or her activities as a licensee and in accordance with the terms and conditions of the permit.
(10) A firearm regulated pursuant to Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 30500) of Division 10 acquired by a person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Section 31005, if that person is acting within the course and scope of his or her activities as a licensee and in accordance with the terms and conditions of the permit.
(11) A firearm regulated pursuant to Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 32610) of Division 10 acquired by a person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Section 32650, if that person is acting within the course and scope of his or her activities as a licensee and in accordance with the terms and conditions of the permit.
(12) A firearm regulated pursuant to Article 2 (commencing with Section 33300) of Chapter 8 of Division 10 acquired by a person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Section 33300, if that person is acting within the course and scope of his or her activities as a licensee and in accordance with the terms and conditions of the permit.
(13) The importation of a firearm into the state, bringing a firearm into the state, or transportation of a firearm into the state, that is regulated by any of the following statutes, if the acquisition of that firearm occurred outside of California and is conducted in accordance with the applicable provisions of the following statutes:
(A) Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 18710) of Division 5 of Title 2, relating to destructive devices and explosives.
(B) Section 24410, relating to cane guns.
(C) Section 24510, relating to firearms that are not immediately recognizable as firearms.
(D) Sections 24610 and 24680, relating to undetectable firearms.
(E) Section 24710, relating to wallet guns.
(F) Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 30500) of Division 10, relating to assault weapons.
(G) Section 31500, relating to unconventional pistols.
(H) Sections 33215 to 33225, inclusive, relating to short-barreled rifles and short-barreled shotguns.
(I) Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 32610) of Division 10, relating to machineguns.
(J) Section 33600, relating to zip guns, and the exemptions in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, as they relate to zip guns.
(c) The provisions of this section are cumulative and do not restrict the application of any other law. However, an act or omission punishable in different ways by this section and different provisions of this code shall not be punished under more than one provision.

[Bolt_Action]

federal law would appear to prohibit it.

If you make it while out of your home state means that you have obtained the firearms outside the state and it would be illegal to transport it back to CA.

No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm

OK. So assuming for the time being that the word "obtain" as used here also means "to manufacture", you can still "transport into the state where you reside" if you go through an FFL, yes? I assume that you can transfer unsafe handguns to yourself from another state, if they are otherwise legal to possess? Surely if your out-of-state father can gift you an unsafe handgun you can give one to yourself? Barring that, someone's father could go out of state, complete an 80% lower, and then gift it to his son back in CA, right (though an FFL, and exempt from the roster via inter-family xfer)?

In other words, tell me who goes to jail and for what in this scenario: I go out of state with an 80% 1911. I finish it at a machine shop in AZ. I then ship it to an FFL in CA and transfer it to my son. Or is it illegal to manufacture a gun for someone else as a gift?

[Quiet]

Or is it illegal to manufacture a gun for someone else as a gift?

Per Federal laws...
You may only manufacturer a firearm for personal use.
There is no gift exemption to Federal laws/regulations.

If you make it with the intention of transferring it, then you must be licensed as a Type 07-FFL.

If not, Federal felony.

[Bolt_Action]

Per Federal laws...
You may only manufacturer a firearm for personal use.
There is no gift exemption to Federal laws/regulations.

If you make it with the intention of transferring it, then you must be licensed as a Type 07-FFL.

If not, Federal felony.

Yeah that's what I thought. Strange that there's a gift exemption to the "straw purchase" law (or straw purchase made up regulation), but not regarding manufacturing. Even more curious would be what happens when two or more people work together to build a firearm? I guess it's just best to avoid these types of situations and walk away.

But I am still curious if you can manufacture a firearm out of state and then ship your own property to yourself via an in-state FFL?

Also, if I'm reading the federal law correctly, it's not illegal for a CA resident to purchase/acquire a firearm outside of CA, it's just illegal to bring that firearm back into CA without going through an FFL, right?

[Quiet]

Also, if I'm reading the federal law correctly, it's not illegal for a CA resident to purchase/acquire a firearm outside of CA, it's just illegal to bring that firearm back into CA without going through an FFL, right?

It's legal to purchase it.
It's illegal to take possession of it out-of-state.
Which is why it needs to be shipped to a CA FFL dealer, who then transfers it.

[Librarian]

Also, if I'm reading the federal law correctly, it's not illegal for a CA resident to purchase/acquire a firearm outside of CA, it's just illegal to bring that firearm back into CA without going through an FFL, right?

It's ALSO illegal for the seller/possessor in that other state to transfer a gun to someone who does not live in the same state as the possessor.

Sticky right here in this forum: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503873

[UnknownShooter]

federal law would appear to prohibit it.

If you make it while out of your home state means that you have obtained the firearms outside the state and it would be illegal to transport it back to CA.

No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm

I don't agree - lots of very *specific* prohibitions there, but buying a "blank" in your home state & finishing it out of state - you aren't "acquiring" anything you didn't already have.

I'm sure there's a prosecutor out there who might try to torture the meaning of the words *into* an offense, but 80% firearms have been flying under the legislative radar for decades - there was never any legislative "intent" to ban or regulate 80% firearms until very recently.

[CSACANNONEER]

I don't agree - lots of very *specific* prohibitions there, but buying a "blank" in your home state & finishing it out of state - you aren't "acquiring" anything you didn't already have.

I'm sure there's a prosecutor out there who might try to torture the meaning of the words *into* an offense, but 80% firearms have been flying under the legislative radar for decades - there was never any legislative "intent" to ban or regulate 80% firearms until very recently.

You leave the state with nothing more than a chunk of metal and try to return importing a firearm that you never had in the state violates both Federal and state law. Federally, you would be acquiring a firearm in a state you are not a resident of.

[UnknownShooter]

You leave the state with nothing more than a chunk of metal and try to return importing a firearm that you never had in the state violates both Federal and state law. Federally, you would be acquiring a firearm in a state you are not a resident of.

There's no specific prohibition against "manufacturing" in the law against those who aren't licensed manufacturers - and you aren't "acquiring" something you already had, you're just leaving a few shavings behind. Lol.. not arguing that you could buy a blank out of state, finish it, then come home with it.. (in that case, you clearly acquired something).

You can argue about the meaning of "a well-regulated militia", because that phrase is 200 years old, and only used in discussions about constitutional law - but you can't argue about words left out of a fairly recent law. If they had the intent to ban "manufacturing", they could have added "or manufacture" to the law, but they didn't, it isn't there & therefore it isn't unlawful.

Even when there is legislative intent, a few missing words make all the difference in a "free" country... clearly a few words were left out of the law banning "assault weapons", despite a very concerted effort to ban anything remotely like an ar-15.. that "loophole" allows the use of bullet-buttons, grip wraps & 10/30 mags. Adding a few more words would have changed the landscape entirely.