X-Products Can Cannon = CA legal (ATF rules not legal 9-21-15)

[bandook]

Why does this remind me of Tannerite?

[F8ality]

Sooooo is this legal or not any official rulings

[Justin562]

I like to get one once verified California legal not just own but also to use. I never really looked into this but was the ar golf ball launch ever legal in CA ? same concept. Hope it's not like the slidefire thing were everyone bought on in CA and later told/suggested they're illegal to use in the state...just don't risk it

[jimx]

I am a representative owner of X Products. Our stance is

If someone gets busted are you going to pay the lawyers fees? I do not think someone will get their case dismissed by just telling the judge that "Allied Armament's stance is that that it is legal".

[ben_r_]

Ha! Just found out about this. Would love to have one but sadly I do not own an AR DROSd as a pistol and dont currently have any way to finish an 80% lower. Pretty dang cool though.

[hammerhead_77]

anyone notice that they mention that projectiles to be launched should not be explosive (no big surprise) or "living"!!

Here, kitty, kitty...

[ben_r_]

anyone notice that they mention that projectiles to be launched should not be explosive (no big surprise) or "living"!!

Here, kitty, kitty...

Ba ha ha ha ha!!!! I did NOT catch that but that is hilarious!

[ben_r_]

So I have actually seen the Can Canon in stock in Tracy Rifle And Pistol and those guys were telling me these are CA legal on an Rifle DROSd AR lower. They said a pistol DROSd lower was not needed since it only fires blanks and was a smooth bore "barrel". Another FFL in my area told me the same. Anyone hear different?

[ptoguy2002]

With regards to the zip gun question:

17360. As used in this part, "zip gun" means any weapon or device
that meets all of the following criteria:
(a) It was not imported as a firearm by an importer licensed
pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of
the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(b) It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a
manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section
921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations
issued pursuant thereto.
(c) No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption
from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181
and Subchapters F (commencing with Section 4216) and G (commencing
with Section 4221) of Chapter 32 of Title 26 of the United States
Code, as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(d) It is made or altered to expel a projectile by the force of an
explosion or other form of combustion.

==>An AR15 firearm was designed (by Armalite way back) to be a firearm. Additionally (if you want to be double sure), if you make the can launcher from a receiver that was built by the OEM as a complete firearm (not a stripped receiver), then federal taxes were paid (BUT YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO USE A RIFLE RECEIVER FOR THE SBR REASON, SEE BELOW). Not a zip gun.
.
.
With regards to it being a destructive device (COMMENTS ARE MINE):

16460. (a) As used in Sections 16510, 16520, and 16780, and in
Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 18710) of Division 5 of Title 2,
"destructive device" includes any of the following weapons:
(1) Any projectile containing any explosive or incendiary material
or any other chemical substance, including, but not limited to, that
which is commonly known as tracer or incendiary ammunition, except
tracer ammunition manufactured for use in shotguns. (NOPE, JUST SO LONG AS YOU DON'T HAVE ANY NO-NO STUFF IN THE CAN)
(2) Any bomb, grenade, explosive missile, or similar device or any
launching device therefor. (SHOOTS CANS, HOWEVER, I WONDER IF ANY SORT OF GRENADE WILL FIT IN THE LAUNCHER ??? )
(3) Any weapon of a caliber greater than 0.60 caliber which fires
fixed ammunition, or any ammunition therefor, other than a shotgun
(smooth or rifled bore) conforming to the definition of a
"destructive device" found in subsection (b) of Section 479.11 of
Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, shotgun ammunition
(single projectile or shot), antique rifle, or an antique cannon. (A CAN IS NOT FIXED AMMUNITION, AND IT OBVIOUSLY ISN'T A DD UNDER FEDERAL LAW )
(4) Any rocket, rocket-propelled projectile, or similar device of
a diameter greater than 0.60 inch, or any launching device therefor,
and any rocket, rocket-propelled projectile, or similar device
containing any explosive or incendiary material or any other chemical
substance, other than the propellant for that device, except those
devices as are designed primarily for emergency or distress signaling
purposes. (NOPE, CAN IS NOT A ROCKET)
(5) Any breakable container that contains a flammable liquid with
a flashpoint of 150 degrees Fahrenheit or less and has a wick or
similar device capable of being ignited, other than a device which is
commercially manufactured primarily for the purpose of illumination. (NOPE)
(6) Any sealed device containing dry ice (CO2) or other chemically
reactive substances assembled for the purpose of causing an
explosion by a chemical reaction. (NOPE)
(b) A bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent is not a
destructive device as that term is used in subdivision (a) (NOPE).

The only potential issue I see is (2). No, it isn't designed to shoot grenades, but if it is capable of shooting grenades (with a cut off can as a wad), you might have a problem. Anybody out of state reading this who has one, that might be an interesting experiment that we would appreciate that you do. See if that is even feasible. If it launches, problem. If it falls out the end of the barrel, you are probably good.

[ptoguy2002]

Is it a short barreled rifle ?....

16530. (a) As used in this part, the terms "firearm capable of
being concealed upon the person," "pistol," and "revolver" apply to
and include any device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is
expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion, or other form
of combustion, and that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
These terms also include any device that has a barrel 16 inches or
more in length which is designed to be interchanged with a barrel
less than 16 inches in length.
(b) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a "firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person," "pistol," or "revolver" from
also being found to be a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled
shotgun.

17170. As used in this part, "short-barreled rifle" means any of
the following:
(a) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in
length. (BIG QUESTION: IS IT A "BARREL" OR IS IT NOT A "BARREL. BARRELS BY THEIR NATURE AND POSSIBLY DEFINITION, HAVE AN OPENING AT THE END. SO THE BLANK FIRING BIT MAY OR MAY NOT BE A BARREL. BUT THE CAN LAUNCHER END SURE LOOKS LIKE A BARREL?)
(b) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(c) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an
overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less
than 16 inches in length. (BUT YOU MAY NOT WANT TO USE A RIFLE RECEIVER (AS I SAID IN THE TAXES PAID BIT ABOVE) FOR THIS REASON)
(d) Any device that may be readily restored to fire a fixed
cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in
subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive.
(e) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to
convert a device into a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c),
inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in
subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, may be readily assembled if
those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same
person.

[ptoguy2002]

So I have actually seen the Can Canon in stock in Tracy Rifle And Pistol and those guys were telling me these are CA legal on an Rifle DROSd AR lower. They said a pistol DROSd lower was not needed since it only fires blanks and was a smooth bore "barrel". Another FFL in my area told me the same. Anyone hear different?

Yeah, and some gun shops were selling slide fires and Tannerite too.
Doesn't tell you anything, especially since they are probably just selling the parts.

[ptoguy2002]

Or could it be an unconventional pistol ?

17270. As used in this part, an "unconventional pistol" means a
firearm with both of the following characteristics:
(a) It does not have a rifled bore.
(b) It has a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length or
has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

THIS is the one that I think will be a problem

[F8ality]

So....still no fact answers....

[Merc1138]

So....still no fact answers....

Until some legislators pass a law banning it, the CA DOJ issues a decision(LOL, yeah right), or someone ends up in court over it, such answers will not exist.

[canid]

The citations of actual penal code and any case law which might come along to support to or conflict with the interpretation are the only fact based answers possible. Much of that is being met in several posts above. The rest can only come in the event the state actually prosecutes somebody via an unfavorable interpretaion.

This discounts the chance they actually offer a policy statement about the device ([sarc.]and we all know they are responsive to genuine inquiries about interpretation of PC in general[/sarc.]