Permanent Mag Blocks

[Pardini]

I realize that there is no legal definition as of yet as to what a permanently blocked mag is.

A LGS is blocking mags with a piece of wooden dowel zip tied in 2 places to the spring. The base pad is riveted to prevent it being removed.

What is the logic that is thought to make this a 'Permanent Block"?

Is it the fact the basepad rivet has to be drilled out to disassemble the mag? In otherwords a "tool" is required, similar to the "tool" having to be used in a bullet button.

If that is the logic, wouldn't a screw in place of the rivet satisfy that standard? Most mags are disassembled by depressing a tab or the spring itself with some sort of "tool". So if having to use a "tool" is what fullfills the "Permanent" aspect, then there is no need for the rivet, screw or epoxy etc.

The other possibility is that having to drill out the rivet is destroying it and that is higher level of permanence than merely using a "tool". However the mag is not made unusable or altered in that process so I'm not able to follow that logic entirely either.

[glock_this]

Screws, rivets, epoxy, blind pins... wooden dowels, cut down plastic shirt hangers (that's going way back), plastic manufactured blocks, .. they all have been done. And, they all are removable. Nothing is "Permanent" and "Permanent" is not defined. With the right tools and time, they all can be undone. How do I know? I have undone them all and the longest takes about 10 minutes with a dremel tool. A rivet is no more "permanent" than epoxy than is a blind pin.

Topics like this have been covered & debated here dozens and dozens of times just FYI.

[Pardini]

Screws, rivets, epoxy, blind pins... wooden dowels, cut down plastic shirt hangers (that's going way back), plastic manufactured blocks, .. they all have been done. And, they all are removable. Nothing is "Permanent" and "Permanent" is not defined. With the right tools and time, they all can be undone. How do I know? I have undone them all and the longest takes about 10 minutes with a dremel tool. A rivet is no more "permanent" than epoxy than is a blind pin.

Topics like this have been covered & debated here dozens and dozens of times just FYI.

Your saying that blocked mags are illegal. I don't want to debate that. The assumption is that they are legal since so many are actively doing in the State now.

What I am looking for is the logic that makes people come to the conclusion that a mag is permanently blocked. I tend to believe as you, that these types of blocking methods may not pass as permanent.

On the other hand, what if the spring was cut and the block placed under it? The block could be removed, but reassembly with the shortened spring would not produce a usable hi cap mag.

I agree that any mag with some amount of effort can be made into a hi cap. A lot of people are blocking mags. I wonder what makes them believe they have permanently blocked the mag. Is it because a tool is required to convert it back or is it that a part of the mag (the rivet) must be destroyed in the process?

[SkyHawk]

He is not saying they are illegal. He is saying they are not practically permanent. The CA DOJ has said in sworn testimony that it is DOJ opinion that an expoxied rivet is compliant with the law as to 'permanence'. There is legally permanent, and there is practically permanent. Nothing is practically permanent in this world, but a rivet and/or epoxy is for now, generally considered legally permanent.

Legally permanent is not yet defined in CA, there have been attempts that have failed. For now we have what we have to go on, which is testimony related to the failed permanence rulemaking.

Regardless of what is inserted into the mag body to keep more than 10 rounds from being loaded, including a wood dowel, so long as that blocking device is kept from being easily or quickly removed from the mag, using reasonable means such as an expoxied rivet in the baseplate, then it is probably legal.

See these for more info - where you will find the logic you are asking for:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions

In sworn testimony, representatives of the California Department of Justice have stated that it is their opinion that the types of modifications presented in the failed "detachable magazine permanence" rulemaking would suffice to be permanent alterations to large-capacity magazines to exclude them from the law. The relevant alterations from the failed rulemaking include:

- Continuous ribbon or ribbons of welding
- A rivet fixed in place with epoxy

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=7275043&postcount=14

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Can_I_use_large-capacity_magazine_parts_to_build_magazines_that_hold_ten_rounds_or_less.3F

http://www.magazineblocks.com/magento/faq

[Pardini]

Thanks for the links. The links on the Mag Block page were helpful.

It seems that the logic is having to drill, grind or cut to restore a blocked mag to hi cap makes it legal.

Interesting to find that any illegal mag becomes legal after 3 years.

[strongpoint]

I realize that there is no legal definition as of yet as to what a permanently blocked mag is.

/thread

[Librarian]

Interesting to find that any illegal mag becomes legal after 3 years.

Not 'legal', but 'ordinarily unprosecutable'.

[hk-p2000]

Just an Obama supporter for BAIT.