Bringing OLL from Florida to CA

[blue642]

Hello,

I have been a CA resident for nearly 2 years now, moved here from FL.

Back in FL I own an AR-15 lower receiver (Anvil Arms AA-15) which is not on the CA list of forbidden lowers. I left it with family for safe-keeping as I hadn't researched it's legality in CA yet. When I travel home this Christmas, I would like to bring it back / ship it back to myself.

I'm curious what steps I'll need to take to:

A) Get the lower back to CA legally. ** I've asked a 4-5 different FFL's and gun shops with different answers from each.

B) Register it once it's here.
1. What form do I need? (prefer a link or form # if you have it handy)*

* I found the New Resident Report of Firearm Ownership (BOF 4010A) but I'm technically not a new resident since I have been here for 2 years.


Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

[drifts1]

You should be able to fly with it, I would install a maglock & 10rd mag just to be safe. Since your technically not a new resident not sure if you would need to register, are you sure you didn't bring it last year?? hehe

[Librarian]

Once again we encounter a problem associated with Federal law.

Generally speaking, if one is moving to a new state, take your guns with you when you move.

Here's the problem: If you had a gun in, say, Florida, and you leave the gun in FL to move to CA, there is no way for an external observer (for example, a bored federal prosecutor) to distinguish that from abandoning or transferring the gun to the person in FL who now has it.

The person in FL has the gun; the person in CA does not. Unless extraordinary care is taken - prior discussion at Calguns suggests it may be sufficient to leave such guns securely locked and inaccessible to the person with whom the gun may be left - all the facts point to a transfer having occurred.

That being so, you can no longer go back to FL and pick up the gun. That would be an illegal interstate transfer, FL-resident to CA-resident; that would be a Federal felony, for the person who would transfer the gun to you, and for you to bring it back to CA.

Under these circumstances, you will need to have the gun sent to a CA FFL, where it will be processed as an interstate transfer, run through DROS, cost fees, wait 10 days for delivery, and all the other stuff that CA requires.

See also the wiki article on Interstate Transfer.

(ETA - for one gun, I think it might be simplest to ask the current possessor to sell the thing, give you the money, and buy a new one here in CA.)

[drifts1]

If he kept a residence in FLORIDA, as in a dual resident, would that change things?

[Librarian]

If he kept a residence in FLORIDA, as in a dual resident, would that change things?

It might - but he stated clearly

I have been a CA resident for nearly 2 years now

Life is simpler if one takes what is written as true (unless, of course, there is reason to believe an error - but one's personal info seems pretty likely to be well known to that person).

[fiddletown]

...I have been a CA resident for nearly 2 years now, moved here from FL.

Back in FL I own an AR-15 lower receiver (Anvil Arms AA-15) which is not on the CA list of forbidden lowers. I left it with family for safe-keeping...

Here's the "long form" of Librarian's correct answer.

The federal laws relating to the transfer of a gun from a resident of one State to a resident of another are about mere physical possession, not just ownership.

Giving someone your gun to store for you will be considered a transfer. It certainly is under federal law, and would also most likely be also considered a transfer under state laws. That's just what "transfer" means.

1. Possession means:

   1 a : the act of having or taking into control...

   
   
2. Some definitions of "transfer" (emphasis added):
   
   
   • http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/transfer:

     ...Transfer encompasses the sale and every other method, direct or indirect, of (1) disposing of property or an interest therein or possession thereof;...

     
     
   • http://www.thefreedictionary.com/transferred:

     2. Law To make over the possession or legal title of; convey.

     
     
   • http://law.yourdictionary.com/transfer:

     Any and every method of removing something from one person or place to another; specifically, the handing over of possession or control of assets or title. ...

   
   
   
3. If you give possession of your gun for storage to someone who is a resident of the same State as you, it's an intrastate transfer and subject to applicable state law.
   
   
   1. In many States private transfers between residents are lawful without formalities.
      
      
   2. However, in some States private transfers require that certain hoops be jumped through.
   
   
   
4. However, if you are not a resident of the same State as the person you leave your gun with, it becomes an interstate transfer and subject to federal law.
   
   
   1. Let's look at the statutes:
      
      
      1. 18 USC 922(a)(3), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

         transport into or receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...

         
         
      2. And 18 USC 922(a)(5), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

         transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ...who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides..;

      
      
      
   2. Note carefully the words used in those statutes. Words like "transport", "receive", "transfer", "give", and "deliver" are all words that describe possession, not just ownership.
      
      
   3. Violation of the federal interstate transfer laws can get the transferor and transferee up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine (plus a bonus of a lifetime loss of gun rights).
      
      
   4. So is there no way for someone to store his gun in State other than his State of residence?
      
      
      1. One possibility if someone wants to store his gun outside his State of residence and avoid possible problems from making an interstate transfer in violation of federal law, would be to arrange matters in a way that gives no one in the storage State access to it.
         
         
      2. Therefore, he might rent a storage locker or safe deposit box to which he alone has a key. Or if he stores a gun with a person, he might keep his gun in locked cases, a locked cabinet or locked safe to which he alone keeps the key or combination.
         
         
      3. This is not guaranteed, and I haven't seen any case law or ATF opinions on this. But it is consistent with ATF's instructions for shipping a gun to oneself in care of another person. Specifically ATF has said (emphasis added):

         6. May I lawfully ship a firearm to myself in a different State?
         

         Upon reaching its destination, persons other than the owner must not open the package or take possession of the firearm.

[blue642]

If he kept a residence in FLORIDA, as in a dual resident, would that change things?

What constitutes keeping a FL residency?

Thanks everyone for the thorough assessment. Especially thanks fr including the statutes with emphasis. I agree, it sounds like just selling it and buying a new one in CA is my best option.

At least in Florida there are no PPT rules, so I've got that going for me.

I greatly appreciate you guys sharing your time and experience.

[BlooDSMeaR]

This topic is why I am reading this forum.

My cousin is going to visit me from OR. He does not want to travel with his rifle, due to stupid laws and over zealous law enforcement. He is planning on coming down and staying for 3 weeks or so while he is on vacation. While he is down we have discussed going pinking. He wants to bring one of his rifles when he comes down to visit. I suggested he mail it to avoid and any heartburn. What is the recommended way to do it for this case?

[fiddletown]

...He wants to bring one of his rifles when he comes down to visit. I suggested he mail it to avoid and any heartburn. What is the recommended way to do it for this case?

As long as it's California legal (e. g., not an assault weapon or with a large capacity magazine), he may just transport it unloaded, in a locked case in the truck or otherwise inaccessible.

[BlooDSMeaR]

As long as it's California legal (e. g., not an assault weapon or with a large capacity magazine), he may just transport it unloaded, in a locked case in the truck or otherwise inaccessible.

Understood, But he wants to mail it, since I suggested it to him. What would be the legal way to do it? It is a m1 carbine so I don't think the AW laws would apply, as it does not have any of the features to make it an AW.

[Librarian]

Understood, But he wants to mail it, since I suggested it to him. What would be the legal way to do it? It is a m1 carbine so I don't think the AW laws would apply, as it does not have any of the features to make it an AW.

See the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Sh...hin_California

Interstate shipping/mailing (in this case, OR -> CA) requires that the package contents be declared, unless going to/from an FFL.

Presumably the rifle might be sent to you, so let's use that as an example.

The package must be sealed, sent to himself, and marked both 'in care of' (your name), and 'to be opened by addressee only'.

FedEx and UPS have a business rule that says an FFL must be on one end of the shipment. They need to use a 'hub' rather than a FedEx/Kinko's or a UPS Store.

US Mail allows shipping long guns, unloaded. A Post Office clerk might not know that, so access to a supervisor at a regional (large-ish) post office would be best.

[BlooDSMeaR]

Right on! I missed it looking though the wiki. I will inform him of the rules and see what he does.

As for the OP sorry to thread jack, I'd have them sell your old OLL and just buy one here. Sucks but that's the way laws work.