SSE Pistol Frame

[Call_me_Tom]

Is this even possible?

I have an extra Beretta slide I'd like to match up to a 92 Vertec frame. I see a handful of them for sale online. How would I go about SSE on the frame?

Thanks

[Tincon]

You a probably thinking of something more like NeRF, an ill conceived idea that was bandied about back in 2009. To my knowledge, there is no legal way to get a fully functional pistol which is not on the safe list other than:

A. Buy if from someone who imported it for personal use when they moved here (or with a C&R), and then decided to sell;

B. Buy it from an LEO who bought it for personal use and then decided to sell; or

C. Buy it from someone who had it before the safe handgun list or before it fell off the list.

[king kong]

Couldn't he ship the slide to a 3rd party out of state to assemble it and then have them ship it to his ffl for an SSE?

[Tincon]

Couldn't he ship the slide to a 3rd party out of state to assemble it and then have them ship it to his ffl for an SSE?

When the frame came in it would be an unsafe handgun, imported for sale by the FFL. The FFL could convert it, however converting it back would probably be manufacturing an unsafe handgun. In any event some FFLs do this, and I've yet to hear of a prosecution (though it may have happened).

[e90bmw]

When the frame came in it would be an unsafe handgun, imported for sale by the FFL. The FFL could convert it, however converting it back would probably be manufacturing an unsafe handgun. In any event some FFLs do this, and I've yet to hear of a prosecution (though it may have happened).

Huh?????

How would converting it back be manufacturing.
If the fame is serial numbered then, all he would need is the FFL to assemble it into a single shot configuration, DROS and deliver. Assembly is not manufacturing. Converting from SSE to semi, is not manufacturing.

[jcwillis]

Using the word, "converting," sounds somewhat inappropriate.
Maybe wording like, "returning the 92 to originally intended function."

[Tincon]

Huh?????

How would converting it back be manufacturing.
If the fame is serial numbered then, all he would need is the FFL to assemble it into a single shot configuration, DROS and deliver. Assembly is not manufacturing. Converting from SSE to semi, is not manufacturing.

Are you sure? What do you call it when you "convert" a 10/30 magazine back to a 30 round magazine? Do you really think that's not illegally manufacturing a large capacity magazine?

[Call_me_Tom]

Couldn't he ship the slide to a 3rd party out of state to assemble it and then have them ship it to his ffl for an SSE?

This suggestion makes the most sense but it also sounds like a hassle for the seller.

Could I just have the frame shipped to a Ca FFL, bring my slide, FFL then SSE the frame & slide?

[e90bmw]

Are you sure? What do you call it when you "convert" a 10/30 magazine back to a 30 round magazine? Do you really think that's not illegally manufacturing a large capacity magazine?

It's not manufacturing.
You are converting a 10/30 back to 30 you are not manufacturing.
You are assembling a high capacity mag.

I don't want to get into semantics but if the frame is already serial numbered, you can't be manufacturing a gun, since the law explicitly states what constitutes a gun.

When I build by AR from a stripped receiver am I manufacturing? No.
When I build my AR pistol from an unfinished 80% lower and I manufacturing? Yes. I am because I need to finish the lower into what the DOJ and BATFE call a gun.

I guess you can split hairs but there is no manufacturing involved with a SSE.

I would suggest the OP talk to a local FFL that can do the SSE on the pistol/frame he is interested. The FFL will give you better advice than what you are bound to find here.

[Tincon]

It's not manufacturing.
You are converting a 10/30 back to 30 you are not manufacturing.
You are assembling a high capacity mag.

Well that's brilliant then, thanks for figuring it out. Since "assembling" isn't prohibited, and it's not manufacturing, I guess we can all make large capacity magazines from 10/30s! You found the loophole!

Note: That's sarcasm folks, listen to e90bmw here and you will be committing a felony.

For reference:

Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2000, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, buys, or receives any large-capacity magazine is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison.

[keenkeen]

In order to SSE a handgun it must be complete and functional. So you can't do a bare frame or just a bare frame and slide.


With a complete off roster handguns the SSE process is completely legit.

Please refer to the SSE STICKY.

[IPSICK]

When the frame came in it would be an unsafe handgun, imported for sale by the FFL. The FFL could convert it, however converting it back would probably be manufacturing an unsafe handgun. In any event some FFLs do this, and I've yet to hear of a prosecution (though it may have happened).

What you're describing doesn't apply to SSE. This is at the heart of what proposed bill AB 1964 is attempting to regulate. What you describe as illegal, is actually not regulated by any current state law. Using the large capacity mag laws as comparison and inference do not apply because the verbage in that law does not regulate handguns, sse, or roster, only magazines..

[Tincon]

With a complete off roster handguns the SSE process is completely legit.

What you're describing doesn't apply to SSE. This is at the heart of what proposed bill AB 1964 is attempting to regulate. What you describe as illegal, is actually not regulated by any current state law. Using the large capacity mag laws as comparison and inference do not apply because the verbage in that law does not regulate handguns, sse, or roster, only magazines..

Lots of conclusory statements, zero legal analysis. What are you basing it on?

The law says manufacturing an unsafe handgun is illegal. Period. If you want to suggest that you cannot manufacture an unsafe handgun from an SSE handgun, please provide some legal citation.

My point with the large capacity magazine law is that "manufacturing" is not limited the construction of the magazine from raw materials. It means any process which results in a large capacity magazine as defined by the law. This is obvious, otherwise we would all have as many large capacity magazines as we like.

The same goes for a process which results in an unsafe handgun, as defined by the law.

[IPSICK]

... What are you basing it on?

...The same goes for a process which results in an unsafe handgun, as defined by the law.

OK, legal eagle can you cite the case law you are basing your analysis on? Until case law establishes your interpretation, you have no legally enforceable basis either.

And if what you're saying is true, how does this work for rimfire and caliber conversions using the same frame? Are you saying people who are using such parts are committing a crime as well by manufacturing an unsafe non-rostered gun?

[munkeeboi]

It's not manufacturing.
You are converting a 10/30 back to 30 you are not manufacturing.
You are assembling a high capacity mag.

I don't want to get into semantics but if the frame is already serial numbered, you can't be manufacturing a gun, since the law explicitly states what constitutes a gun.

When I build by AR from a stripped receiver am I manufacturing? No.
When I build my AR pistol from an unfinished 80% lower and I manufacturing? Yes. I am because I need to finish the lower into what the DOJ and BATFE call a gun.

I guess you can split hairs but there is no manufacturing involved with a SSE.

I would suggest the OP talk to a local FFL that can do the SSE on the pistol/frame he is interested. The FFL will give you better advice than what you are bound to find here.

IANAL, but I think it's all about semantics....

in your mag example, if you started with zero 30 rd mags and by dis-assembly/re-assembly you end up with more than zero 30 rd mags, The DOJ considers this manufacturing. Whatever you want to call it, it is defined by the DOJ as manufacturing. You have more 10+ mags than you started with before disassembly.

You, as a non-FFL can manufacture guns without the intent to re-sell. You buy or make your frame/lower, you assemble your parts. BOOM. Working Gun

For an FFL, their license is granted with the INTENT to sell guns. If they start with their own frame/lower reciever and end up with a full handgun/long gun, that is considered Manufacturing and now are liable for Taxes/fees. If you bring in an already DROS'd to you frame/lower receiver, they are allowed to assemble it for you and it's considered gunsmithing.

SSE is not manufacturing as stated. The gun comes in and is logged in their books as a handgun and is dros'd as handgun. What comes in matches what comes out. Caliber changes/barrel lengths aside, it's still handgun in, handgun out.

The problem with the OP's situation is that that the frame will be logged into the FFL's books as a frame and will be logged out as a handgun. That constitutes manufacturing. In almost every other state it can dros'd as a frame, possessed by the new owner and then given back to the FFL for "gunsmithing" work. In CA, that does not work since a bare handgun frame cannot be DROS'd (since it is not on the CA roster) prior to any work the FFL has to do to it (certain exempt individuals aside)

This used to happen when AR Pistols first hit the scene. The FFL would allow you to order a Pistol lower, but since it could not be dros'd as a bare lower, allowed you to bring in your own parts and make it into a complete AR pistol before DROS'ing. That quickly came to an end when audits revealed that lowers were being logged in and DROS'd and logged out as complete pistols