DOJ requested pictures of firearms for new resident

[relativity]

So I mailed in the application, the Glocks and HKs handguns are fine, but they are requesting photos for a few rifles. I have 3 AR style rifles with CompMags (AR-15 COMPMAG. GEN 3 and AR-10 COMPMAG GEN.3). Has anyone been approved with those mags?

I see my options here:
1. disassemble all and re-report all of the AR style rifles as stripped lowers, w/ photos.
2. submit photos with CompMags
3. Convert to kingpin or featureless, then submit w/ photos
4. write back to them saying f*** off politely.

I really want to go with option 1, that's a way with less resistence and full open options, can I do that? I've reported them not as "receivers only" previously, but they didn't approve them either.
Option 3 I've seen people got approved, option 2 is too risk since I've never heard CompMags got approved before.



The firearms they requested photos for:

- AERO percision m4e1: currently has the compmag
- Ruger SFAR: currently has the AR10 compmag
- Ruger Mark IV .22: not sure why they need photo of this one
- m4e1 stripped lower: they are asking if it's receiver only, so I guess the anwser is yes?
- Springfield Hellcat 9mm: Not sure why they pick on this one
- Scar 17s: it has a Fin grip, fixed-length stock and non foldable, angled grip, a muzzle break
- Daniel Defense DDMv4: currently has the compmag

[hermosabeach]

As I understand it, they can request but there is no law requiring photos.

I don't recall the details but Cfars asked me for additional info / photos and I replied no and was approved.

[relativity]

As I understand it, they can request but there is no law requiring photos.

I don't recall the details but Cfars asked me for additional info / photos and I replied no and was approved.

You are right. They can request and we can reject, and they can reject too. That's what happenned recently. And it's still lawful after their rejection.

All I am trying to do is: proving that my stuff is fully compliant and don't send 10 agents to raid my home please.

[Librarian]

You are right. They can request and we can reject, and they can reject too. That's what happenned recently. And it's still lawful after their rejection.

All I am trying to do is: proving that my stuff is fully compliant and don't send 10 agents to raid my home please.

Actually, no they can't 'reject'.

The New Resident reporting is enacted at PC 27560.

PC 11106 says

11106.

(a) (1) In order to assist in the investigation of crime, the prosecution of civil actions by city attorneys pursuant to paragraph (3) of subdivision (b), the arrest and prosecution of criminals, and the recovery of lost, stolen, or found property, the Attorney General shall keep and properly file a complete record of all of the following:
...
(E) Reports provided pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 27500) of Chapter 4 of Division 6 of Title 4 of Part 6, or pursuant to any provision listed in subdivision (a) of Section 16585.

- Article 1 includes 27560.

That's it. They are required to accept and "properly file a complete record" of reports, including New Resident. So far as I am aware, there are no specified punishments to DOJ for failing to follow PC 11106(a)(1)(E).

If DOJ thinks they need those photographs, they can lobby a legislator to get a bill that will authorize them.

If you have some reasons of your own to accede to their request, that's up to you.

[RickD427]

Actually, no they can't 'reject'.

The New Resident reporting is enacted at PC 27560.

PC 11106 says - Article 1 includes 27560.

That's it. They are required to accept and "properly file a complete record" of reports, including New Resident. So far as I am aware, there are no specified punishments to DOJ for failing to follow PC 11106(a)(1)(E).

If DOJ thinks they need those photographs, they can lobby a legislator to get a bill that will authorize them.

If you have some reasons of your own to accede to their request, that's up to you.

As usual, Mr. Librarian is right on point.

There is no "Approval" provision in the statute. It's a "Notification" process only.

Here is the text of the statute that requires you to make the report (Quoted in pertinent part from Penal Code section 27560):

"Within 60 days of bringing a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2014, any firearm, into this state, a personal firearm importer shall do one of the following:

(1) Forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report prescribed by the department including information concerning that individual and a description of the firearm in question.

..."

Please note that your legal duties are complete once you have submitted the report.

You're free to submit the requested photos, and it may be advantageous to do so, but there is no requirement for you to comply with the request.

Please consider the following:

1) If you decline to provide photos, the nice DOJ Agent has to decide whether: a) to finalize your report, or b) apply for a search warrant so that he/she/it/other can personally inspect the weapon. Option "a" is groovy, and the more likely. Option "b" will cause you some headache.

2) If you submit photos that depict the weapon(s) differently than described on the report, you're adding PC for the warrant.

3) If you submit photos depicting the weapon(s) in a clearly legal configuration, and then later change the configuration, you may fall into the trap that DOJ has laid with their arguments in the CCR's that changing the configuration of an weapon, renders the weapon different from the one registered. That argument has only been advanced, so far, for BBRAWs, and is legally untested, but the argument remains concerning.

[bigstick61]

What probable cause of a crime could they possibly have for not submitting photos that are not required by law while complying with the law in submitting the actual required report/record? I don't see what PC for a warrant they could have in this scenario, or are we presuming they are seeking a warrant without PC and have judges to rubber stamp such illegal warrants?

[bohoki]

it may be hard to believe but i think they may have a list of firearms that could be assault weapons and they are asking for photos to "assist" the owner in the understanding of the complicated california laws

of course i am not sure if they will sent a letter warning of noncompliant firearms or will send an officer to confiscate the contraband

[igs]

Your first mistake was submitting an application. You voluntarily told them you potentially have AWs. Now you are on their list. Except a knock on the door in the near future.

[DolphinFan]

You have the Inalienable Right of PRIVACY Under Article 1 Section 1 of the California Constitution.
The state regularly commits civil rights violations.

[RickD427]

What probable cause of a crime could they possibly have for not submitting photos that are not required by law while complying with the law in submitting the actual required report/record? I don't see what PC for a warrant they could have in this scenario, or are we presuming they are seeking a warrant without PC and have judges to rubber stamp such illegal warrants?

Mr. Bigstick,

I think that you're mis-understanding the concept of "Probable Cause."

There is no element of "Probable Cause" that results from refusing to submit photographs. They're not required by law, and the OP is well within his rights to decline to provide them.

The "Probable Cause" that is required for the search warrant is information, acquired from all sources, that would show a "fair probability" that the evidence sought is at the place to be searched. Although I often like to speak of "Probable" using the root of the word to mean "more likely than not", the governing case law uses the "fair probability" terminology.

In this case the information available to the nice DOJ agent is probably gonna be limited to that provided by the OP on the registration form. Without seeing the actual content of the form, I can't speak specifically to the OP's case.

But his form did list a "Daniel Defense DDMv4" rifle. That rifle is normally supplied with a 32 round magazine, and if bought into California by a non-exempt person would be a felony. While it is entirely possible that the DDMv4 was configured differently from stock to comply with California law, the "fair probability" standard allows the nice DOJ agent to assume the weapon is in stock form absent information to the contrary. There's your "Probable Cause" right there.

[Mandalorian]

Tagged. Good stuff!

[splithoof]

Your first mistake was submitting an application. You voluntarily told them you potentially have AWs. Now you are on their list. Except a knock on the door in the near future.

Legal or not, I have to agree. Trying to be a honest law-abiding citizen can be hazardous. This is yet another example of legal minefields that Benitez once spoke of it.
If an individual did not report such importation, and kept his firearms in a legal configuration, if later questioned the best answer might be that he stored them out of state until recently. I am not telling someone to do this, but I am sure it happens.

[igs]

[relativity]

Just to report back, I wrote an letter to decline the photo request in a professional way, like a what a lawyer would write with the help of chatgpt, and they approved it without the photos.

[WithinReason]

Well done!