Another Intra-Familial Interstate Transfer

[Chewy65]

I have a friend who's Gramps is a resident of Nebraska and my friend is a resident of California. He wants to BUY an off-roster handgun that Gramps bought new some 10 years ago.

Does this qualify as a intra-familial, interstate transfer. Assume that Gramps has his LGS ship the gun to the California FFL along with a copy of Gramp's drivers license and a letter stating that he, a resident of Nebraska, is the owner of the gun, which is described by make, model, and serial number, and that he has SOLD it his grandson for an amount of dollars that is reasonable. It is my understanding, that the reason the CDOJ permits a
FFL to deliver to the California resident who is receiving the off-roster is because it would do so if both Gramps and Granson were residentis of this state and the recipient only needs to use a California FFL to handle the delivery in order to accomodate Federal law. Such law requires that the handgun purchased or acquired in a state other than the buyer's state of resident be delivered to that buyer by a FFL in the buyer's state.

I ask because some say that an intra-familial, interstate transfer of an off-roster handgun is limited to situtions in which the out of state relative gifts the handgun to the Californian. I think that is true of situations in which the off-roster is being purchased as a gift. If not we have a straw purchase situation involving a perjury on a Federal document. However, in the described hypothetical, no ATF Form 4473 is involved and one need not be conerned with any possible straw purchase.

BTW, if the letter advised the FFL that this was a gift, would this not be a fraud on the California Tax Franchise Board?

[Librarian]

Strikes me that 32000

32000.

(a) (1) A person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends an unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.

prohibits import for sale. That seems to be what friend would be doing (sale to himself).

So, might not an in-state intrafamilial transfer be a sale, sometimes? The required docs don't ask about that.

Leaves me uncomfortable; so, of course, not a thing I, personally, would choose to do.

[Chewy65]

Strikes me that 32000
prohibits import for sale. That seems to be what friend would be doing (sale to himself). I don't see how he is selling anything to himself. Gramps is selling to him.

So, might not an in-state intrafamilial transfer be a sale, sometimes? The required docs don't ask about that. It seems pretty clear, at least to me, that this is a sale between a resident of Nebraska and a resident of California. ie.: an interstate sale.

Leaves me uncomfortable; so, of course, not a thing I, personally, would choose to do. Agreed. The monetary costs, not just attorney fees but the entire mess of defending a prosecuter with unlimited resources, argues against takinig the risk. Why should it a sale be exempt from the roster where both family members are California residents but the opposite be true where the seller is out of state?

Way back in the dark ages, when someone such as I could come in the back door of a local law school, I got the idea to explore the reasoning behind laws. It seems that the Legislature wished to permit certain family members to easily transfer firearms amongst themselve. Consequently, intrafamily trnasactions are exempted from needing to be done with the assistance of a FFL. I suspect the reason that California does not exempt tranactions when one of the immediate family member is out of state is that the USC requires the use of a FFL in the state where the recipient resides. We only know that off roster transfers are allowed between immediate family members where a the transaction is a gift and not a purchase, and everyone assumes that for some reason a buy is not going be roster exempt. But if a buy is exempt where both are Cal Residents, why should the rule be different because one is out of state? Is the idea to favor wealthy families who can afford to give firearms to family members, but to penalize those not born with the proverbial silver spoon in their mouths. I know it is a less favored ground on which to base an argument, but did you ever hear of the Constitutional Right of Equal Protection?

I digress. This is a case I would take pro bono.

[BAJ475]

Way back in the dark ages, when someone such as I could come in the back door of a local law school, I got the idea to explore the reasoning behind laws. It seems that the Legislature wished to permit certain family members to easily transfer firearms amongst themselve. Consequently, intrafamily trnasactions are exempted from needing to be done with the assistance of a FFL. I suspect the reason that California does not exempt tranactions when one of the immediate family member is out of state is that the USC requires the use of a FFL in the state where the recipient resides. We only know that off roster transfers are allowed between immediate family members where a the transaction is a gift and not a purchase, and everyone assumes that for some reason a buy is not going be roster exempt. But if a buy is exempt where both are Cal Residents, why should the rule be different because one is out of state? Is the idea to favor wealthy families who can afford to give firearms to family members, but to penalize those not born with the proverbial silver spoon in their mouths. I know it is a less favored ground on which to base an argument, but did you ever hear of the Constitutional Right of Equal Protection?

I digress. This is a case I would take pro bono.

Can I be co-counsel? Hopefully, Judge Benitez will shortly slay the roster!

[Chewy65]

Can I be co-counsel? Hopefully, Judge Benitez will shortly slay the roster!

You can be second chair, which wouldn't be fair as I would certainly be learning from you. But when ever has the law been fair?

No doubt Saint Benitez will do his best to slay that nasty dragon, but I fear the ring leaders of the 9th Circus will keep that game long after I am no longer in it.