Can my friend come along and shoot with me at the shooting range legally?

[KinkyShooter]

20 years ago he had a domestic violence charge. I know he cannot buy/possess firearms/ammo, but can he legally come along to target range and shoot my guns with my ammo?

Thanks.

[SkyHawk]

20 years ago he had a domestic violence charge. I know he cannot buy/possess firearms/ammo, but can he legally come along to target range and shoot my guns with my ammo?

Thanks.

If he is a prohibited possessor, then no.

However not all domestic violence charges are prohibiting. Only a very specific type are. So how do "you know" he cannot buy/possess firearms? Do you know the exact details of the case, the specific charges he was convicted of, and most importantly the exact relationship and living arrangement he had with the victim, and if they had any children together at the time of the offense? If he had counsel, waived his right to a trial etc?

[IronsightsRifleman]

I don't believe it's possible to shoot a gun without being in legal possession of it.

[SkyHawk]

I don't believe it's possible to shoot a gun without being in legal possession of it.

Plenty of people find out the hard way

10 years in prison because he went to a gun range:

http://archive.naplesnews.com/news/crime/convicted-felons-trip-to-marco-gun-range-earns-him-10-years-in-prison-ep-401957679-344554962.html

"California gun range manager arrested for being felon with gun"

https://web.archive.org/web/20130818104530/http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_23869208/california-gun-range-manager-arrested-being-felon-gun

"Yuba City Convicted Felon Lands Behind Bars After Appearing In Local Newspaper Story
"A convicted felon was caught red-handed after a picture of him shooting a firearm at a gun range surfaced in the local paper last week."

http://web.archive.org/web/20130218123526/http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/video/8404606-yuba-city-convicted-felon-lands-behind-bars-after-appearing-in-local-newspaper-story/

[KinkyShooter]

If he is a prohibited possessor, then no.

However not all domestic violence charges are prohibiting. Only a very specific type are. So how do "you know" he cannot buy/possess firearms? Do you know the exact details of the case, the specific charges he was convicted of, and most importantly the exact relationship and living arrangement he had with the victim, and if they had any children together at the time of the offense? If he had counsel, waived his right to a trial etc?

I know because some years ago after getting his record expunged he tried to purchase a shotgun and was denied because of the DV conviction.

[SkyHawk]

I know because some years ago after getting his record expunged he tried to purchase a shotgun and was denied because of the DV conviction.

But he may have been only subject to the CA 10yr ban back then. Not the federal lifetime ban. They are two different things. You can be subject to one and not the other, or both. And people get denied over inaccurate or incomplete records all the time.

I'm just saying... Plenty of people who thought they were banned for life for DV find out otherwise. Plenty more will go through life never knowing, because their friend "knows".

At any rate, if your friend is well and truly banned for life because he was convicted of a DV that could be considered federal MCDV, then he cannot touch a firearm or ammo. He might be able to take up black powder shooting in some states, maybe even CA but again that depends a great deal on the exact charges, and details of his specific case.

The federal definition of “misdemeanor crime of domestic violence”

Federal law defines “misdemeanor crime of domestic violence” (“MCDV”) as an offense that:

is a misdemeanor under Federal, State, or Tribal law;
has, as an element:
the use or attempted use of physical force, or
the threatened use of a deadly weapon; and
is committed by:
a current or former spouse of the victim,
a parent or guardian of the victim,
a person with whom the victim shares a child in common,
a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, or
a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim.
Note that this definition is more expansive than that of “intimate partner” for purposes of the section of the law applicable to protective orders.

Additionally, this definition differs from the California definition of domestic violence in several important respects:

you must have been represented by counsel, or have knowingly and intelligently waived that right;
you must have been entitled to a jury trial and either (1) been tried by a jury, or (2) knowingly and intelligently waived that right;
offenses against people you have dated (but never married, never lived with, and never had children with) do not count as MCDV; and
to qualify as an MCDV under federal law, the offense must have involved the use or attempted use of force, or the threatened use of a deadly weapon.

So as you can see, an offense that counts as a crime of domestic violence under California law is not necessarily one under the federal statute.

Example: Bob threatens to choke his ex-wife the next time she takes their kids somewhere without his permission. He gets convicted of making criminal threats California Penal Code 422 PC. Under California law, this conviction triggers a 10-year firearms ban.
But this conviction does not generate a federal ban on Bob’s gun rights. This is because there was no actual physical force or threatened use of a deadly weapon. As a result, unless Bob does something else that legally restricts his gun rights, Bob will be entitled to possess a firearm in 10 years-time.

Conversely, there may be some offenses that qualify as federal crimes of domestic violence, even though they do not meet the California definition.

Example: Janet is convicted of Penal Code 415 PC, California’s “disturbing the peace” law for shoving her husband in public. This is not a crime that triggers a California firearms’ ban. But it could conceivably trigger the federal lifetime ban because it:
1. was committed against a spouse, and
2. involved the use of physical force.
But… the Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals has held that simple battery under California Penal Code section 242 is not a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence. The court explained that the federal ban requires conduct more serious than mere offensive touching. A state conviction in which no force… or only minimal force… was used or attempted does not qualify.

Thus it is not entirely clear whether a federal court would consider shoving to be force significant enough to meet the federal requirement.

What is clear, however, is that if even one of the elements required under the federal statute is not met, California law alone dictates whether… and when… your gun rights will be restored.

[KinkyShooter]

But he may have been only subject to the CA 10yr ban back then. Not the federal lifetime ban. They are two different things. You can be subject to one and not the other, or both. And people get denied over inaccurate or incomplete records all the time.

I'm just saying... Plenty of people who thought they were banned for life for DV find out otherwise. Plenty more will go through life never knowing, because their friend "knows".

At any rate, if your friend is well and truly banned for life because he was convicted of a DV that could be considered federal MCDV, then he cannot touch a firearm or ammo. He might be able to take up black powder shooting in some states, maybe even CA but again that depends a great deal on the exact charges, and details of his specific case.

That's interesting. How does he find out if it was a 10yr or a lifetime ban?

Thanks.

[Quiet]

But he may have been only subject to the CA 10yr ban back then. Not the federal lifetime ban. They are two different things. You can be subject to one and not the other, or both. And people get denied over inaccurate or incomplete records all the time.

That's interesting. How does he find out if it was a 10yr or a lifetime ban?

CA laws were amended, effective 01-01-2021.

If convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence before 01-01-2019, then subject to a 10 year ban. [PC 29805(a)]

If convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence after 12-31-2018, then subject to a lifetime ban. [PC 29805(b)]

[KinkyShooter]

CA laws were amended, effective 01-01-2021.

If convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence before 01-01-2019, then subject to a 10 year ban. [PC 29805(a)]

If convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence after 12-31-2018, then subject to a lifetime ban. [PC 29805(b)]

That's good news! Is there a form my friend can fill out to check if he's clear?

[MyOdessa]

CA laws were amended, effective 01-01-2021.

If convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence before 01-01-2019, then subject to a 10 year ban. [PC 29805(a)]

If convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence after 12-31-2018, then subject to a lifetime ban. [PC 29805(b)]

PC 29805(a) refers to PC 243(e)(1) DV charge and slew of other misdemeanor offenses subject to 10 years prohibition.

PC 29805(b) is specific to misdemeanor PC 273.5 DV charge, which is subject to lifetime ban, same as felony lifetime ban.

[MyOdessa]

That's good news! Is there a form my friend can fill out to check if he's clear?

Your friend should talk to an attorney either in the county were he was convicted or to some of the better known CA firearms attorneys, there is a sticky on CGN with names.

[edgerly779]

My employee had a dv 12 years ago how can he find out if ban was lifted?

[RickD427]

That's good news! Is there a form my friend can fill out to check if he's clear?

Be careful here.

Please note that California and Federal statutes define "Domestic Violence' slightly differently.

It's important to know if your friend was convicted of a California-flavor of Domestic Violence, a Federal-flavor of Domestic Violence, or both.

If your friend was convicted (in either a state or federal court) where the circumstances met the federal-flavor of Domestic Violence, then it doesn't matter if California's 10-year ban applies. Your friend is still prohibited for life.

[Jeepergeo]

Maybe look for better friends.

[SkyHawk]

That's good news! Is there a form my friend can fill out to check if he's clear?

My employee had a dv 12 years ago how can he find out if ban was lifted?

Be careful here.
...
If your friend was convicted (in either a state or federal court) where the circumstances met the federal-flavor of Domestic Violence, then it doesn't matter if California's 10-year ban applies. Your friend is still prohibited for life.

Yes indeed. The federal lifetime ban trumps the CA 10yr ban. But you could be convicted of a DV that gets you a CA 10yr ban but does not subject you to the Federal ban. It all depends on the specifics of the case.

Also, the federal MCDV lifetime ban is retroactive, it does not matter how long ago the offense happened. If your offense meets the criteria for federal MCDV, you are essentially banned for life, there is no fix for it.

The friend (or employee) should talk to a competent firearms rights attorney.

Jason Davis

http://www.calgunlawyers.com/

Adam Richards

https://www.ajrlaw.net/

Michel & Associates

https://michellawyers.com/

in no specific order and just to name a few good ones.

But they might be able to save some money just by looking at the federal MCDV criteria:

1. Did the crime involve

the use or attempted use of physical force, or
the threatened use of a deadly weapon;

2. And was the offender

a current or former spouse of the victim,
a parent or guardian of the victim,
a person with whom the victim shares a child in common,
a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, or
a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim.

If the answer is yes to both, then they are banned for life. If the answer is not cut and dry, then consult an attorney. Note that boyfriend/girlfriend relationships are not automatically the same as "spouse".