Acquiring a DWP for Machine Gun Collecting [Serious]

[DudeFromTheWest]

[Serious Question] I guess I don't like being told 'no', but in the past I know it was possible to get DWP's/SWP's for collecting machine guns, on a personal level. Does anyone know if this is still possible to do? I like a challenge. Has there been any attempts recently of anyone to start a MG collection in CA.

Id like more of a deep dive, if this is possible, than just the usual "move to Nevada, or Texas...".

[P5Ret]

From Cal. Code of regulations title 11 section 4128 subdivision c,

(c) To establish good cause, an applicant must provide the DOJ with clear and convincing evidence that there is a bona fide market or public necessity for the issuance of a dangerous weapons license or permit and that the applicant can satisfy that need without endangering public safety. Except as provided by Penal Code section 33300, good causes recognized by the DOJ to establish a bona fide necessity for the issuance of licenses or permits includes the following:
(1) Sales to and/or manufacture for sales to law enforcement, military and/or dangerous weapon licensees/permittees.
(2) Training, research and development; and/or manufacturing pursuant to government contract.
(3) Use and/or manufacture of dangerous weapons as props in commercial motion picture, television production, or other commercial entertainment events.
(4) Possession for the purpose of maintaining a collection of destructive devices as defined in Penal Code section 16460 but such possession shall not be allowed for short-barreled shotguns, short-barreled rifles, machineguns or assault weapons.
(5) Repair and maintenance of dangerous weapons lawfully possessed by others.
(6) Use of dangerous weapons in activities sanctioned by government military agencies by members of those agencies.
(7) The sale of assault weapons and/or the manufacture of assault weapons for the sale to, purchase by, or possession of assault weapons by: the agencies listed in Penal Code section 30625, and the officers described in Penal Code section 30630; entities and persons who have been issued assault weapon permits; entities outside the state who have, in effect, a federal firearms dealer's license solely for the purpose of distribution to an entity listed herein; federal law enforcement and military agencies; law enforcement and military agencies of other states; and foreign governments and agencies approved by the United States Department of State.
(8) Use of dangerous weapons for the design, manufacture, demonstration, and sales of dangerous weapons accessories to law enforcement and military agencies, qualifying peace officers, and California dangerous weapons licensee/permittees.

Pay particular attention to C 4.

[hermosabeach]

Change name to Steven Spielberg and you got a shot.


I knew a guy who was an H&K sales rep. He / firm had some licenses in California. I want to say his license # was under 200


He said less than 200 issued to companies since they started issuing licenses.

[Mac Attack]

Get your SOT FFL and build your own or buy one.

[abinsinia]

Maybe if you actually did work for the movie industry, maybe even try really hard to do work for the movie industry would be enough. Then you would have to have a large collection of different guns.

[Experimentalist]

From Cal. Code of regulations title 11 section 4128 subdivision c,

[I](c) To establish good cause, an applicant must provide the DOJ with clear and convincing evidence that there is a bona fide market or public necessity for the issuance of a dangerous weapons license or permit and that the applicant can satisfy that need without endangering public safety. Except as provided by Penal Code section 33300, good causes recognized by the DOJ to establish a bona fide necessity for the issuance of licenses or permits includes the following:
...
(2) Training, research and development; and/or manufacturing pursuant to government contract.
...

The "Training, research and development" option under item (2) above sounds interesting. Even just recently "Small Arms Review" magazine has had so-called "Frankengun" challenges. These involve (sometimes) clever modification of existing firearms by interested private parties to serve some unique purpose.

Many of the original innovators in the small arms field were private citizens with a bent to tinker with firearms. I've no idea what would be required in order to convince the issuing authorities that you qualified under (2), but it seems a smart person with original ideas would meet the basic meaning of that option.

[Quiet]

Acquiring a DWP for Machine Gun Collecting [Serious]

[Serious Question] I guess I don't like being told 'no', but in the past I know it was possible to get DWP's/SWP's for collecting machine guns, on a personal level. Does anyone know if this is still possible to do? I like a challenge. Has there been any attempts recently of anyone to start a MG collection in CA.

Id like more of a deep dive, if this is possible, than just the usual "move to Nevada, or Texas...".

Since 1968, it is no longer legally possible to obtain or maintain a Dangerous Weapons Permit for MG under the good cause of being a collector. [11 CCR 4128(c)(4)]

AFAIK... Bob Hope was the last known person to have had been issued a DWP for MG for being a collector and it was issued in the mid-1950s and due to his celebrity status was allowed to maintain it until the late-1990s, after which they liquidated his collection (sold at auction to FFL/SOT dealers). He had a large belt-fed MG collection that was in pristine condition due to them not being fired since the 1970s. During the late-1970s, a requirement for being a collector was added, which required the dangerous weapons in the collection never be discharged.

The "Training, research and development" option under item (2) above sounds interesting. Even just recently "Small Arms Review" magazine has had so-called "Frankengun" challenges. These involve (sometimes) clever modification of existing firearms by interested private parties to serve some unique purpose.

Many of the original innovators in the small arms field were private citizens with a bent to tinker with firearms. I've no idea what would be required in order to convince the issuing authorities that you qualified under (2), but it seems a smart person with original ideas would meet the basic meaning of that option.

Part in bold is a requirement in order to be eligible for that good cause for issuance.

California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 7 Article 3 Section 4131
Training; Research & Development; and/or Manufacturing.
(a) Documentation required to determine bona fide necessity for training; research & development; and/or manufacturing of dangerous weapons pursuant to Government contract includes the following:
(1) Current copies of government agency contracts.
(2) Detailed statements of objectives of the training, research & development, and/or manufacturing including time frames of the effort and a projected completion date.

[SkyHawk]

HOW TO START BUILDING A MACHINEGUN COLLECTION

Step 1. Move out of CA...

[Quiet]

HOW TO START BUILDING A MACHINEGUN COLLECTION

Step 1. Move out of CA...

Step 2. Do not move to Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, or Washington.

[SVT-40]

Move to Arizona with your large bag (200K or more) of cash. Collecting transferable MG's is a very expensive endeavor.

[bubbapug1]

Machine guns are cheap to build.

Very expensive to feed.

[Capybara]

FFL 07/SOT 02 and you can buy post May 86, some of which are expensive but generally much less $$ than transferable MGs. Plus you can convert/manufacture new MGs. But the paperwork, visits from the ATF/audits, yeesh. You really need to do it as a business, not as a "business" and you'd probably need to be retired to keep up with all of it as it sounds like a f/t job from what little I know about it.

I'm sure if you ask nicely, EBR Works could let you know the real deal with becoming an FFL 07/SOT 02.

[EBR Works]

As already noted, you must be truly in the business to obtain and maintain your FFL in CA. We did it and it's still possible to do it, but with lots of hoops to jump through with CALDOJ, local zoning, local PD, HOA, etc.

As also noted, you're not getting a CA DWP for AW, SBR, SBS, MG, etc. unless you are extremely well connected to LE or the movie industry. We tried and failed along with several others we know that were fully in the business.

One interesting thing is, once you have your FFL in CA, you can do business in and maintain inventory of suppressors by obtaining your SOT. No DWP required. We've walked a few CA FFLs through the process. Easy.

Feel free to ask questions.