Obtaining a Off Roster Handgun “Springfield Hellcat”

[james0411]

Thanks

[Oldmandan]

You can buy from him when he becomes a CA resident again. Ca resident to Ca resident is fine as a ppt

More info is needed to determine if he obtained them legally in CO

[james0411]

[Librarian]

CA law question, so moved.

Simple case, which I suspect does not apply here:

Some active duty servicemember legally buys a handgun in his state of PCS assignment.

He gets transferred to CA on PCS orders

By CA law, he need not register guns he brings in while still active. (Can't bring in 'assault weapons')

By both Federal and CA law, he is a resident of CA for gun purposes.

He therefore can sell that handgun, on or off-Roster, to any non-prohibited CA resident.

Here's the possible set of problems:

1) Is he transferring here to CA, on Uncle Sam's orders, or is he separating and coming back?

2) Does CA think he is a CA resident - that is, does he pay CA taxes, keep a CA driver license, register his vehicle(s) in CA, vote in CA? No one of those, nor all together determines that he might be a CA resident - all of those are rebuttable presumptions should he go to court - but those are factors CA government would use to justify the claim that he might be a resident.

IF he is coming back as a civilian, AND if CA thinks he is a resident already, then it's probable that PC 27585 applies -

27585.

(a) Commencing January 1, 2015, a resident of this state

shall not import into this state, bring into this state, or transport into this state, any firearm that the person purchased or otherwise obtained on or after January 1, 2015, from outside of this state

unless the person first has that firearm delivered to a dealer in this state for delivery to that resident

pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

And, if the guns might be off-Roster, the CA FFL cannot deliver his own property back to him, unless the gun might be Roster exempt (usually C&R). (In this case, unlikely that the transaction is exempt - those are usually PPT, and this reconveyance from him to himself does not qualify - and he himself does not seem to be exempt - those are usually CA sworn LE.)

In short, Magic 8-ball says "Outlook not so good." But the 8-ball can be shaken again ...

[Quiet]

If the active duty Military member meets one or more of the following, then CA still considers them to be a CA resident and PC 27585(a) applies:
A. Having a valid CA DL/ID.
B. Being registered to vote in CA.
C. Owning or renting any property in CA.
D. Paying any type of insurance in CA.
E. Having children actively enrolled in a CA K-12 school.

If CA considers them to still be a CA resident, then any firearm they legally acquire outside of CA must be transferred to them through a CA FFL dealer, in order to legally import that firearm into CA.
There are no exemptions to this for active duty military.
Firearms imported into CA in this manner must be CA legal and if the firearms are handguns, then they must be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it (LEO, C&R, OTP, SAE, SSE2).
Failure to utilize a CA FFL dealer equates to a misdemeanor per long gun and a felony per handgun.

If CA does not consider the Military member to be a CA resident, then when they move to CA to become a CA resident, they will be considered a new resident of CA.
A new resident of CA can legally import any CA legal firearms that they intent to keep to CA.

However, if the new resident of CA is importing CA legal handguns that they do not intend to keep, then the handguns must be listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it (LEO, C&R, OTP, SAE, SSE2).
A new resident of CA importing non-exempt off-Roster handguns that they intend to transfer once they arrive in CA will be considered an illegal unsafe handgun importer [PC 32000(a)], in addition depending on the circumstances and amounts of firearms being imported for transfer, they can also be considered an illegal firearms dealer under CA laws [PC 26500] and Federal laws [18 USC 922(a)(1)(A)].

[ar15robert]

Like someone mentioned most likely still considered a ca resident and aint gonna fly bringin them back.

Ca has a strong hold down on who is still a resident.

[Chewy65]

Dang it if Cali doesn't have the clearest firearm law. Folks moving to the state might thinkfrom sections 27585(b)(5) and 17000 that they can bring any non-prohibited firearms with them, but only to be turned into criminals under 32000.

If that was the intention of the Legislature, wouldn't it have been nice if 17000 and/or 27585(b)(5) had flagged the necessity that the personal firearm importer lack an intent to transfer? It appears that the closest 17000 comes is the proviso at 17000(a)(7) that they a PFI "intends to possess that firearm within this state". How long ( a minute, a week, a month) we aren't told, but is someone moving to the state with the intention of selling an off roster very likely to possess it in this state for several days or even months?

[Chewy65]

Quiet

If the importer brought it in with the intention of keeping it and changed their mind the day after they can sell, but if they brought it in with the intention of selling and kept it there is no violation of 32000(a). Do I have that correct?

[Librarian]

If the importer brought it in with the intention of keeping it and changed their mind the day after they can sell, but if they brought it is with the intention of selling and kept it there is no violation of 32000(a). Do I have that correct?

Yes.

The potential problem is somewhat created by people making posts that suggest buying before moving here, with the intent of profiting from the markup possible.

People are free to do anything they like. There's a risk from pre-crime announcements.

[Chewy65]

Librarian. Well said.