Trusts

[echo1]

Hi Gunners,

My assets are in a trust. Can the executor have more than 5 firearm sales a year? Thanks, PAX

[????? ????]

Since you’re talking about a trust, and not a will, do you mean a trustor, a trustee, or a beneficiary? For a trust, Penal Code section 26515 and Penal Code section 26589 apply.

Penal Code section 26500 is the law that requires sellers of firearms to be licensed. An exception to section 26500’s license requirement is if sales are “infrequent.” Infrequent means less than six transactions per year and less than 50 firearms per year. Sections 26515 and 26589 are other exceptions to the license requirement.

[SVT-40]

It's 5 sales transactions in California. The number of firearms per transaction isn't restricted.

[Librarian]

Trustees of a trust ordinarily are not licensed as CA FFLs. Absent the license, limited as already noted.

[SkyHawk]

Trustees of a trust ordinarily are not licensed as CA FFLs. Absent the license, limited as already noted.

But Trustees can also be (and frequently are) beneficiaries of the trust. And in such a case, this exemption on PPT limit would seem to apply from PC 26515

(a) The sale, lease, or transfer is made by a person who obtains title to the firearm by any of the following means:
(2) As the beneficiary of a trust that includes a firearm.

If they disposed of firearms within 60 days of receiving them as a beneficiary, it seems they would be exempt from the limit on the number.

No one has to die in order for a trustee to make a distribution to a beneficiary, and that beneficiary could be (and frequently is) the trustee. It seems the "trust beneficiary" is the exception to someone having to die in order to invoke the limit exemption. Perhaps that is not what the lawmakers intended, but it seems that is what they wrote?

[Librarian]

In our trusts, there are no 'beneficiaries'. We are trustees. Our children are successor trustees.

As trustees, we can dispose of property in the trust as we wish, and add other things to the trust; things like real estate require an amendment to the trust. Other stuff is usually personal property and gets added to the trust by amending a schedule of those things - just a list with the correct header.

[????? ????]

A trust by definition has a grantor, a trustee, and a beneficiary. A trustee has legal title and a beneficiary has equitable title. The separation of title is why trusts exist, and why when a single person has both legal and equitable title, the trust merges.

[echo1]

Thabks for the clarity. PAX

[guntrust]

It's 5 sales transactions in California. The number of firearms per transaction isn't restricted.

There is also a limit of 50 firearms per year.

See my article here:

https://lawnews.tv/return-of-the-gun-trust-ab-1292-eases-estate-planning-for-california-gun-owners/

[guntrust]

In our trusts, there are no 'beneficiaries'. We are trustees. Our children are successor trustees.

As trustees, we can dispose of property in the trust as we wish, and add other things to the trust; things like real estate require an amendment to the trust. Other stuff is usually personal property and gets added to the trust by amending a schedule of those things - just a list with the correct header.

Scheduling is not funding. Merely swapping the schedule is not likely to be an effective amendment but if it is, the amended schedule may help in a Heggstad motion.

Better to use specific assignment and title properly. You can also use a separate tangible personal property memo to make changes personal property, if your trust provides adequately for this memo.

[Librarian]

Scheduling is not funding. Merely swapping the schedule is not likely to be an effective amendment but if it is, the amended schedule may help in a Heggstad motion.

Better to use specific assignment and title properly. You can also use a separate tangible personal property memo to make changes personal property, if your trust provides adequately for this memo.

You are using "tangible personal property memo" exactly the same way as our trust attorney (in Oregon) uses "Schedule B".

Our only real property, our bank accounts, our retirement financial instruments, our insurance policies etc all are explicitly included in the main trust doc. And yes, we have a 'pour over' will.

[guntrust]

You are using "tangible personal property memo" exactly the same way as our trust attorney (in Oregon) uses "Schedule B".

Our only real property, our bank accounts, our retirement financial instruments, our insurance policies etc all are explicitly included in the main trust doc. And yes, we have a 'pour over' will.

Sorry, Librarian--forgot you were up in Oregon. Don't tell the bar up there i was practicing without a license!

Down here in CA we have some case law that allows liberal treatment of tangible personal property. Blanket general assignments are probably valid even as to future acquired tangibles. And the memo i referenced works because the trust refers to it and states that any revisions are deemed an amendment to the trust. Again, not likely to work for everything but some case law supports this arrangement with tangibles.

[Chewy65]

Sweet, Guntrust. I never really practiced tax and estate law, but way back when I recall something about attaching a schedule of assets included as trust property to an AB trust. Last month I had ocassion to explain to a relative how she could add to or delete trust property by the same, but advised her to first check with an attorney in her state.

[OlderThanDirt]

In our trusts, there are no 'beneficiaries'. We are trustees. Our children are successor trustees.

As trustees, we can dispose of property in the trust as we wish, and add other things to the trust; things like real estate require an amendment to the trust. Other stuff is usually personal property and gets added to the trust by amending a schedule of those things - just a list with the correct header.

If I'm not mistaken, the Successor Trustee (Trust) or Executor (Probate) is not limited to the firearm sales limitations in order to liquidate a gun collection per the conditions of the trust/will, specifically under the exemption as people acting under the operation of law or court order.