Los Angeles CCW and moving out of state

[Librarian]

Librarian,

Where was the deputy incorrect on the law. Your highlighten where the OP says he will be changing residency to LA for 5 months is no big deal to my way of thinking.

OP says he is changing his residency to 'another state'; if that is accurate, then PC 26210(d) applies. If the referenced deputy understood 'change of residence' and then offered advice inconsistent with 26210(d), the deputy was incorrect.

[pacrat]

I still contend that due to the conflicting and ambiguous. Laws, that the IA seemingly has implied discretion.

Rustlin Jack said;

California law requires that a CCW license be issued to a resident of the county where the license was issued, with rare exception. If the OP moves to another state and establishes residency there, he can no longer claim that he lives in a county in California where the CCW was issued. Having a California ID card does not define residency in this case.

Yet a DMV issued Ca ID card. And second form of residency, such as tax or utility bill. And bingo you can buy a gun and DROS it at a Ca FFL.

Ergo, if Ca allows you as a resident to purchase a firearm, under those criteria, of residential proof. The SAME could be said for a CCW.

Same issue of "what it doesn't say".

So OP gets Ca CCW issued by county. Then changes "residence" out of state temporarily, [which would include-out of county]. Does NOT SAY, it is permanently invalid, and does NOT SAY, permanently expired. It says "expired".

Since the criteria that made it invalid after 90 days.[moving]. Is removed by simply [moving back]. It could be argued that upon return, the permit is again valid.

I believe the deputy may be correct. Unless, as with many other Ca firearms issues.

A test case clarifies.

[Librarian]

Yet a DMV issued Ca ID card. And second form of residency, such as tax or utility bill. And bingo you can buy a gun and DROS it at a Ca FFL.

I'll suggest that set of circumstances might let a person get away with it.

I have a strong tendency to believe people mean what they say. OP says

But here's the rub: I am about to move to another state, where I will be spending about 7 months/year and changing residency to there.

[M1NM]

Your residence is CA - your vacation home is in the other state. You are just lucky to spent 7 months a year on vacation.

[pacrat]

Originally Posted by pacrat View Post
Yet a DMV issued Ca ID card. And second form of residency, such as tax or utility bill. And bingo you can buy a gun and DROS it at a Ca FFL.

I'll suggest that set of circumstances might let a person get away with it.

I have a strong tendency to believe people mean what they say. OP says

But here's the rub: I am about to move to another state, where I will be spending about 7 months/year and changing residency to there.

OK, let's view ALL that the OP said, with the above only being the first sentence of the paragraph.

But here's the rub: I am about to move to another state, where I will be spending about 7 months/year and changing residency to there. We are keeping our house in LA and spending the other 5 here. I would like to keep the CCW obviously for when I am here.

I believe that "keeping our house" likely denotes "ownership". With attached Prop Taxes. {who would pay rent for 5 mo. in Ca, if not there?}. That would mean that the state of Ca and Ca FTB. Would consider him a "resident". Even when he is out of state.

So would he be "getting away with it"? Or just utilizing, a vaguely written statute. Which as I already noted the likely possibility of, through lack of explicitly forbidding it in statute, seems to grant discretion on the part of the IA.

Think {bullet buttons}. Did all those AR owners get away with it? Concensus is NO, because it wasn't forbidden by the legislature.

The "90 day absence criteria" in the statute. Only appears to invalidate his CCW, ... for 4 of his 7 months, out of state.

Note .... I used to firmly believe in the "Spirit of the Law". Then after 46 yr of "straw man" referring to "prohibited persons". Until the Abramski debacle in 2014. Now I realize. The black letter of the law is a controlling factor.

[Librarian]

Defining residency seems to be an as-applied situation.

Since I do not care to spend money on lawyers on the point, simple black/white works best for me.

Others may have differing opinions.

Were I to state 'I am changing residency to another state', I would have no ambiguity.

[pacrat]

Defining residency seems to be an as-applied situation.

Since I do not care to spend money on lawyers on the point, simple black/white works best for me.

Others may have differing opinions.

Were I to state 'I am changing residency to another state', I would have no ambiguity.

Black/White is simple. Unfortunately there always seems to be that pesky GREY area, making things more complicated.

The underlined is for sure an un-ambiguous declaration. And one that I'm under the impression, you have first hand knowledge of.


Yet, OP's situation is going to be a 7/5 split. Placing him in that pesky GREY zone.

[Chewy65]

This to me is a very simple matter. Regardless of the OP having said that he will be changing his residency to another state, the issue is whether he remains a resident of his present county for purposes of CCW law. The OP's statement is anything but definitive, IMO, though it may bear on the ultimate issue of whether he remains a resident; assuming that the defintion of resident here is the same as that incorportated in PC 17000 by reference to VC 12505. For the sake of simplicity, I will.

12505 tells us that "residency is determined as a person's state of domicile" and that a state of domicile is where they have their "true, fixed, and permanent home and principal residence and to which he or she has manifested the intention of returning whenever he or she is absent."

So it boild down to which will be the OP's principal residence if he has manifested an intention of retruning whenever he is absent. Arguably, that would include returning after a 7 month hiatus in his home in anther state.

Look at it this way. You can move to another state for numrous reasons, such as college, work, to just get away from it all, for days, months, or even years, but as long as you have a true, fixed, and permament home, which is your principal residence, and Calfornia is your place of domicile then it is your place of residence. For that very reason, a person who beleives they lost their residency upon moving to another state may find themselves charged with importation of a firearm as a resident when they think they are only moving back, since at all times when absent they can be deemed to have remained a resident of the state.

I am giving the OP no advice, but were it me I would think twice before I changed my place of voting registration. Also, speak with his attorney about why he is keeping the place in California and spending so much time in the Golden State. Does he intend to eventually retire there? Keep in mind that should you continue to be considered a CA res there is no question of moving back with off rosters as could a "Personal Firearms Importer".