Question about PCC

[loganob831]

[ARDude]

If you are talking about putting a pistol upper on your rifle lower....

No, you can not.

[loganob831]

If you are talking about putting a pistol upper on your rifle lower....

No, you can not.

Sorry, I may not have asked it clearly: I'm not talking about putting the two together within CA, I'm just talking about transporting the assembled rifle and the other upper separately, like in a separate bag.

[P5Ret]

I think you need to be very clear in what you are thinking of doing. Simply because what it looks like is that you want to assemble an SBR out of state, and that is not going to fly. You'll have to do a bit more to the rifle lower than just switch out the upper, the stock will have to come off also.

Never mind the potential problems of having a pistol upper and no pistol lower. While there is no constructive possession law, case law has established a precedent for that very thing to happen. Proceed with extreme caution.

[edgerly779]

Can never switch rifle to pistol only other way around. How was lower drosed rifle or pistol.

[loganob831]

I think you need to be very clear in what you are thinking of doing. Simply because what it looks like is that you want to assemble an SBR out of state, and that is not going to fly. You'll have to do a bit more to the rifle lower than just switch out the upper, the stock will have to come off also.

Never mind the potential problems of having a pistol upper and no pistol lower. While there is no constructive possession law, case law has established a precedent for that very thing to happen. Proceed with extreme caution.

Okay this is what I was looking for, thanks. Yeah obviously I would take the stock off; I was just not sure if there was something like a "constructive possession" law possibility that could screw me.

Not trying to make an SBR at all - just would have liked to have the option of converting to an ATF approved pistol when out of state. But it seems like it's riskier than it's worth. Shoulda known!

[ARDude]

Just keep in mind that removing the stock from your rifle lower, does not make it a legal pistol. Even in other states.

[Quiet]

I really want to buy/build a 9mm AR but had a couple questions:

I live in CA but been making it a point to visit friends in free states more. For shooting in CA i’d obviously build it up to snuff- 16” barrel, featureless. But I’d also want to get parts for a pistol configuration for when I go shooting elsewhere.

Are there any laws that’d shaft me from traveling within CA with the firearm assembled in compliance with CA laws as well as carrying the separate upper that I can swap in when I’m out of state? I don’t think so but just wanted to double check.

Okay this is what I was looking for, thanks. Yeah obviously I would take the stock off; I was just not sure if there was something like a "constructive possession" law possibility that could screw me.

Not trying to make an SBR at all - just would have liked to have the option of converting to an ATF approved pistol when out of state. But it seems like it's riskier than it's worth. Shoulda known!

Under Federal laws...

Making a Title 1 Rifle into a Title 1 Handgun makes a Title 2 SBR, not a Title 1 Handgun.
Unless you have BATFE approval to make a Title 2 SBR, it is a Federal felony to do this.

There is constructive possession for Title 2 firearms.

For the Feds, "constructive possession" is when a person "has the power and intention at a given time to exercise dominion and control over an object". [US v Turnbough]

So only having an Title 1 Rifle (your 9mm PCC) and a short barreled upper for it, would meet the Federal requirements for "constructive possession" of a SBR.


Under CA laws...

Making a weapon, that has a less than 16" barrel length or less than 26" overall length, from a rifle is a SBR. [PC 17170(c)]

Having ownership or control over the parts to make a SBR is the same as having an assembled SBR. [PC 17170(e)]

So only having an Title 1 Rifle (your 9mm PCC) and a short barreled upper for it, would meet the CA requirements for "constructive possession" of a SBR.

[loganob831]

Thanks for the replies. That helps. I know in other parts of the country stripped receivers can be dros’d as “other” which lets you have more freedom to embrace the modularity of the platform but it seems in CA they automatically get dros’d as long guns.

And good to know about the constructive posession- bummer. There goes that idea! Thanks a lot guys for helping me to not commit a crime.

Edit: it is kind of funny; I get the CA restrictions because it’s CA but on a federal level it’s kind of equally dumb. So the gun I was looking at was the Angstatd UDP9. They sell it in both rifle and pistol config- same receiver, same upper, same everything except for barrel and stock/brace. But if I bought the rifle and then swapped uppers, it’d be a crime. Even though I could buy that exact pistol and it wouldn’t run afoul the law at all.

[Quiet]

Edit: it is kind of funny; I get the CA restrictions because it’s CA but on a federal level it’s kind of equally dumb. So the gun I was looking at was the Angstatd UDP9. They sell it in both rifle and pistol config- same receiver, same upper, same everything except for barrel and stock/brace. But if I bought the rifle and then swapped uppers, it’d be a crime. Even though I could buy that exact pistol and it wouldn’t run afoul the law at all.

Which is why AOW, SBR, and SBS need to be removed from the NFA.

Remember one of the intents of the NFA was to restrict ownership of handguns, which is why Title 2 AOW, Title 2 SBR, and Title 2 SBS were a part of the NFA.
While it was working it's way through Congress, handguns were removed from the NFA but the AOW/SBR/SBS were kept (they should have also been removed).

IMO...
NFA should only be about DD & MG and all of the added on (GCA & FOPA) manufacturing, importation, and transferring restrictions need to be removed.

[local_nobody]

so..i realize it's not pistol caliber (and probably more expensive than the PCC in mind), but would it be feasible to start with a Franklin Armory CA7, and have a second upper with gas tube for out of state use? or would that run afoul of "constructive posession" as well?

[Quiet]

so..i realize it's not pistol caliber (and probably more expensive than the PCC in mind), but would it be feasible to start with a Franklin Armory CA7, and have a second upper with gas tube for out of state use? or would that run afoul of "constructive posession" as well?

It is legal to have a second AR pistol upper, while owning an AR pistol.

No "constructive possession", as long the AR pistol upper is not stored/transported with an AR rifle.
^AR pistol upper should be stored/transported with an AR pistol.

[shaocaholica]

Look at the 80% thread and how people rushed to make AR pistols before all the cut off dates. You kinda missed the boat by a lot.