Transporting maglocked ar

[Looneybin]

[broadside]

Without a magazine in it, CA considers it an AW if the gun is operable (not separated upper/lower)

I keep an empty mag and chamber flag in mine all the time unless actually shooting.

[Librarian]

Without a magazine in it, CA considers it an AW if the gun is operable (not separated upper/lower)

I keep an empty mag and chamber flag in mine all the time unless actually shooting.

I would be interested to learn the source of that CA policy you report.

It's easier for LE to avoid confusion if there is a mag in the mag well, but that's different from a legal requirement.

[broadside]

I would be interested to learn the source of that CA policy you report.



It's easier for LE to avoid confusion if there is a mag in the mag well, but that's different from a legal requirement.

Isn't it in the DOJ fixed mag regulations (proposed or in place I don't recall) for a firearm that isn't a RAW already and upper and lower are not disassembled?

[Librarian]

Isn't it in the DOJ fixed mag regulations (proposed or in place I don't recall) for a firearm that isn't a RAW already and upper and lower are not disassembled?

Nope.

Back before the law changed, lots of folks thought a bullet-buttoned rifle also needed a mag installed; I was told that in a gun store in Sac.

But at that time, and in the current situation, the receiver itself had/has been modified - the actual presence of a mag is not relevant legally.

[broadside]

Hmm. A maglocked lower with no mag installed can technically still accept a detachable magazine. Is that ability no longer part of the law\regs? If I have all my evil features and no mag in the maglocked rifle I can force a mag into it. Can't remove it but it can accept one.

Guess I need to find the current regs and reread

[Librarian]

The current consideration (for 'featured' centerfire semi-automatic rifles) is 'must one disassemble the action to remove the mag?' If yes, all is well.

PC 30515 in relevant parts

30515.

(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
...
(b) For purposes of this section, “fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.

[broadside]

Based on that if the firearm is assembled without a magazine in it and it is assembled, as noted in my original reply, then it does not meed the requirement of a fixed magazine and is thus an AW.

Not sure how my first reply was wrong. I assumed the OP's rifle in question has evil features since it has a maglock on it, could be a bad assumption but its a valid one to make.

[Librarian]

Based on that if the firearm is assembled without a magazine in it and it is assembled, as noted in my original reply, then it does not meed the requirement of a fixed magazine and is thus an AW.

Not sure how my first reply was wrong. I assumed the OP's rifle in question has evil features since it has a maglock on it, could be a bad assumption but its a valid one to make.

On that interpretation, one would be required to reload the mag in place, instead of break open, remove empty mag, close, insert charged mag.

Since the definition includes "the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action " removing the mag is anticipated.

[broadside]

On that interpretation, one would be required to reload the mag in place, instead of break open, remove empty mag, close, insert charged mag.

Since the definition includes "the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action " removing the mag is anticipated.

I am so confused as to what you are describing. I can normally clearly understand your posts and meaning.

One component of being an AW is not having a fixed mag which is defined as a feeding device being contained in or perm attached to to firearm. If you do not have the mag in the gun and it has evil features, then it is an AW (unless per the DOJ regs it is dissembled). If the mag is not contained in the gun then it is not a fixed mag. Is it not that simple?

How are you getting

On that interpretation, one would be required to reload the mag in place, instead of break open, remove empty mag, close, insert charged mag.

from

Based on that if the firearm is assembled without a magazine in it and it is assembled, as noted in my original reply, then it does not meed the requirement of a fixed magazine and is thus an AW.

(other than saying assembled twice)

But you are correct that it is not a requirement to have the magazine in it during transport, but there are other ramifications of that situation. The major one being you now have an AW that is not registered, assuming the OP is asking his question because his is not a RAW.

Maybe that is what you were trying to communicate?

[Librarian]

One component of being an AW is not having a fixed mag which is defined as a feeding device being contained in or perm attached to to firearm. If you do not have the mag in the gun and it has evil features, then it is an AW (unless per the DOJ regs it is dissembled). If the mag is not contained in the gun then it is not a fixed mag. Is it not that simple?

It doesn't work like that.

I suspect you are suffering from 'namespace collision'.

There is 'common usage' where one might say 'look, the magazine comes out, this must be a removable magazine'.

And there is 'legal definition', where it does not matter whether the magazine comes out (or, in this discussion, is even present), so long as that is possible only when the firearm action is disassembled.

Range rules for cease fire usually require removing mags and inserting a chamber flag; do you suppose the ranges are demanding the shooters create 'assault weapons' at every cease fire?

[mshill]

I am so confused as to what you are describing. I can normally clearly understand your posts and meaning.

One component of being an AW is not having a fixed mag which is defined as a feeding device being contained in or perm attached to to firearm. If you do not have the mag in the gun and it has evil features, then it is an AW (unless per the DOJ regs it is dissembled). If the mag is not contained in the gun then it is not a fixed mag. Is it not that simple?

He already quoted the pertinent code section defining "fixed magazine" above in post #7, you should re-read it.

[broadside]

It doesn't work like that.

I suspect you are suffering from 'namespace collision'.

There is 'common usage' where one might say 'look, the magazine comes out, this must be a removable magazine'.

And there is 'legal definition', where it does not matter whether the magazine comes out (or, in this discussion, is even present), so long as that is possible only when the firearm action is disassembled.

Range rules for cease fire usually require removing mags and inserting a chamber flag; do you suppose the ranges are demanding the shooters create 'assault weapons' at every cease fire?

Are you both saying that I can have my maglocked AR fully assembled with no magazine in it and it not be considered an assault weapon under 30515?

Your common usage example is not happening here. I am not talking about it being removable or not, simply does it have a magazine in it while the firearm assembled.

Because to me, there is no magazine "contained in or perm attached to" the rifle so it does not meet the definition for having a fixed magazine, thus is deemed an AW. The exception being the DOJ regs(??) that said a disassembled firearm is not a firearm for the definition of an AW. Hence my original reply that having no mag in an assembled rifle makes it an AW (on the assumption that he is asking because it has evil features)

As for your last line I am not sure which way you are arguing. If you disassemble the rifle to remove the magazine and leave it disassembled with a chamber flag, then how is anyone creating an 'assault weapon' during cease fire?

As for range rules, I have not had any issue with leaving and empty mag in the gun as long as the chamber flag is present. Otherwise I drop the mag and leave the rifle disassembled (broke open via kingpin device) with the flag.

I am not trying to be a jerk, I am trying to best understand to keep myself out of jail and in possession of my property. I know there were previous posts about this stuff and I thought my understanding was inline with the results of those original threads.

[BONECUTTER]

removed without disassembly of the firearm action.

So basically you are saying since the definition of a fixed mag only applies to how its removed. A fixed magazine rifle without a mag can accept a magazine and still be compliant as long as the action needs to be disabled to remove it?

[SkyHawk]

Hmm. A maglocked lower with no mag installed can technically still accept a detachable magazine.

It can accept an attachable magazine. Not a detachable magazine.

Insert the mag and it becomes locked and not detachable. Plus I would think some if not most (or all?) of these 2.0 ‘action open’ mag locks would preclude insertion of the mag without the action open, because the mag catch has to open some to insert the mag. I am not familiar with them all, but the Hogue Freedom Fighter for instance blocks all movement of the mag release, and unless your mag body can flex and return, it isn’t going in unless the action is opened.