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Can I teach a foreign visitor how to shoot a gun (using my firearm)?

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  • #16
    hermosabeach
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Feb 2009
    • 19103

    Tourist Visa is Fine

    Student Visa - no guns
    Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

    Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs)

    Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

    Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT
    (thanks to Jeff Cooper)

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    • #17
      elSquid
      In Memoriam
      • Aug 2007
      • 11844

      Originally posted by sofbak
      ^^^Right. And op was talking about the El Dorado National Forest. I doubt a BATFE agent is going to be out there screening for citizenship or visa status.
      He didn't ask "will I get caught?", he asked "is it legal?"

      -- Michael

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      • #18
        Quiet
        retired Goon
        • Mar 2007
        • 30241

        In regards to rental places in Nevada...

        Most NV rental places make alien tourists sign up for a "rental package", which includes them obtaining a NV Apprentice Hunting License with their personal range master having a NV Hunting License and acting as their hunting mentor, so they can legally shoot at the rental range.

        NV Apprentice Hunting License = need to be 12 years of age or older and never had a NV Hunting License. No class/training required, just need to be with a hunting mentor (who has a NV Hunting License and provides the NV Apprentice Hunting License). Only valid for one hunting season.
        sigpic

        "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

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        • #19
          BucDan
          Veteran Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 4060

          Post 4 says that, as long as they are at a designated range, it's OK?

          I see Korean tourists in San Diego going to the range as a group and renting guns to shoot almost all the time.

          Clarification needed there.

          Comment

          • #20
            Syntax Error
            Veteran Member
            • Nov 2009
            • 3817

            Originally posted by BucDan
            Post 4 says that, as long as they are at a designated range, it's OK?

            I see Korean tourists in San Diego going to the range as a group and renting guns to shoot almost all the time.

            Clarification needed there.
            The Republic of Korea is a visa-sharing nation with the U.S. so ROK nationals are allowed to rent and shoot gun here.

            Comment

            • #21
              fiddletown
              Veteran Member
              • Jun 2007
              • 4928

              Originally posted by yaujar
              ...A family friend is coming oversea and he expresses interest in learning to fire a real gun here in the US. I normally would go up to the El Dorado National Forest and do my quarterly shooting practice. Can I legally bring him along and let him borrow my firearms (handguns, rifle and a few LEGAL ARs and Aks) to learn how to shoot?...
              This always becomes a contentious matter.
              1. Here's federal law:

                1. 18 USC 922(g)(5):
                  (A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or

                  (B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));
                  to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

                2. and 18 USC 922(y):

                  (C) an official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State; or

                  (D) a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business.


              2. So in general, a foreign national present in this country needs to have a state hunting license to be able to legally have a gun in his hands.

              3. However, someone traveling on a passport eligible for a waiver of a vise requirement and visiting for 90 days or less for the purposes of business or pleasure is probably qualified for the Visa Waiver Program and therefore should be able to lawfully have temporary possession of a gun or ammunition.

                The Visa Waive Program allows a foreign national from one of a number of participating countries to enter the United States for a limited period of time, and for certain purposes, without a visa.

                ATF (see Q5 and Q6) has decided that lawfully entering the United States as a non-immigrant when permitted without a visa is not the same as entering with a non-immigrant visa, and therefore such a non-resident alien in not subject to the 18 USC 922(g)(5) prohibition. It looks like this ATF interpretation was made around 2012.

                The Visa Waiver Program applies to visitor from most European countries, several Asian countries, and one South American country. It doesn't include any Middle Eastern or African countries. The requirements for a visa are waived only for visits for business or pleasure not to exceed 90 days.

              4. And even if it appears that ATF might not be very proactive about enforcing this prohibition, that doesn't change what the law is. And they did prosecute these two guys.


              Originally posted by ErikC12
              Yes you can. No legal issues.
              And you're wrong. See above.

              And Congress has explicitly said it's illegal (subject to specified exceptions).

              Originally posted by elSquid
              ...the way that the law works is that actions that are not expressly deemed illegal, are legal....
              But Congress has expressly said that it's illegal (subject to specified exceptions).

              Originally posted by sofbak
              ^^^Right. And op was talking about the El Dorado National Forest. I doubt a BATFE agent is going to be out there screening for citizenship or visa status.
              That's getting away with committing a crime, not being legal. Folks who commit crimes sometimes get caught even if they don't expect to.

              Originally posted by edgerly779
              He is loaning to buddy not a word said about rentals....
              If the guy can't legally under federal law have a gun in his hands, the OP is aiding and abetting and is thus subject to the same penalties under (up to five years in federal prison and a lifetime loss of gun rights) 18 USC 2.

              Originally posted by hermosabeach
              Tourist Visa is Fine...
              Cite legal authority. In fact a tourist visa is no different from any other non-immigrant visa and doesn't help.
              "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

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