6 sale transations per year- what about out of state sale?

[bczrx]

Hello All,

I understand that the current state of affairs in our state indicates that we can make 6 sales transactions a year. Any more and we get into trouble, unless we have an FFL of some form.

I also understand that I could sell 20 firearms in a PPT face-to-face to someone on a single DROS form, and that would count as 1 transaction.

I get the idea that it is better to have someone buy 2 or 3 firearms from us at once, than sell 3 to them over 3 months.



Here is my question:

Does this count if we sell to someone out of state?

Using Gunbroker as an example, could someone sell 10 or 15 firearms through Gunbroker to people living outside California, in 10 or 15 separate transactions, without running afoul of California's 6 per year maximum?

Of course they would have to ship to an FFL in that state, and be processed according to all applicable laws.

thank you in advance.

[Librarian]

How would CA know about out of state sales?

One still might run afoul of Federal law on being in the business without a license.

[bczrx]

How would CA know about out of state sales?

One still might run afoul of Federal law on being in the business without a license.

If our firearms are registered in our name with the state of California, would the DROS paperwork in another state automatically remove that firearm from our record? If not, I would need to let California know that I no longer have legal possession of the firearm- within 72 hours, if I recall correctly.

Is the federal Government as strict as California?

I seriously don't know what federal restrictions there might be for selling personal firearms out of a personal collection to pay family bills.

[I Swan]

If our firearms are registered in our name with the state of California, would the DROS paperwork in another state automatically remove that firearm from our record? If not, I would need to let California know that I no longer have legal possession of the firearm- within 72 hours, if I recall correctly.

Is the federal Government as strict as California?

I seriously don't know what federal restrictions there might be for selling personal firearms out of a personal collection to pay family bills.

DROS is a CA thing.

[Barbarosa]

BTW, for handguns it's less than six transactions per year, which is legalese for five.

[Yodaman]

BTW, for handguns it's less than six transactions per year, which is legalese for five.

This [emoji1369]


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[Librarian]

If our firearms are registered in our name with the state of California, would the DROS paperwork in another state automatically remove that firearm from our record? If not, I would need to let California know that I no longer have legal possession of the firearm- within 72 hours, if I recall correctly.

Is the federal Government as strict as California?

I seriously don't know what federal restrictions there might be for selling personal firearms out of a personal collection to pay family bills.

As I Swan notes, DROS is CA only; not all states have any 'gun registration', and none have the ability to reach into CA's Automated Firearms System and make changes.

As to 'no longer in possession', there is no legal requirement, and I have yet to see any of the discussions we've had on the point offer a good enough reason for me to tell CA a damn thing I don't have to.

Other folks have reached different conclusions.

[bczrx]

Hi All,

Thank you.

DROS = Cal. Got it.

Isn't there some federal form also?

When we sell to another state, it uses the Federal form. But, we still need to report the fact that we no longer own the firearm to Sacramento- correct? [thanks Librarian!]

5 max in handguns- Got it!

Is it 6 max for long guns?


Or is it 5 transactions of any form: hand or long?


Thanks All!!!!

[SarcoBlaster]

Hi All,

Thank you.

DROS = Cal. Got it.

Isn't there some federal form also?

When we sell to another state, it uses the Federal form. But, we still need to report the fact that we no longer own the firearm to Sacramento- correct? [thanks Librarian!]

5 max in handguns- Got it!

Is it 6 max for long guns?


Or is it 5 transactions of any form: hand or long?


Thanks All!!!!

"Infrequent" for long guns which is defined as "occasional and without regularity" per 16730 PC.

[Chewy65]

Hello All,

Does this count if we sell to someone out of state?

Using Gunbroker as an example, could someone sell 10 or 15 firearms through Gunbroker to people living outside California, in 10 or 15 separate transactions, without running afoul of California's 6 per year maximum?

26500.
(a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless the person has been issued a license pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

(b) Any person violating this article is guilty of a misdemeanor.

26520. (a) Section 26500 does not apply to the infrequent sale, lease, or transfer of firearms.

(b) As used in this section, infrequent has the meaning provided in Section 16730.

If you are asking about a sale made in California, the wording of the Penal Code is plain and unambiguous and should therefor be applied according to its language unless you can establish that application to a sale by a California resident made entirely outside of the state is contrary to the intent of the Legislature in enacting the statute. I don't know if you can do that. Consequently, sales transactions on Gunbroker could count to wards the limit of less than six.

[bronco75a]

But, we still need to report the fact that we no longer own the firearm to Sacramento- correct? [thanks Librarian!]

What part of there is no legal requirement to do so don't you understand?

Now if it was stolen it would be in your best interest to do so just in case later on it's used in the commission of a crime.

[Gnote]

...

Now if it was stolen it would be in your best interest to do so just in case later on it's used in the commission of a crime.

With the passing of Prop 63 in 2016, not only is it in your best interest, it is also a crime if you do not report it if lost or stolen.

[BagelBites]

What part of there is no legal requirement to do so don't you understand?

Now if it was stolen it would be in your best interest to do so just in case later on it's used in the commission of a crime.

I was never a fan of this line of thought. Reporting the firearm stolen would certainly generate a record that it's not in your possession. As far as I know, DOJ's Notice of No Longer in Possession form serves the purpose of de-registering a firearm in CA. If/when the firearm is recovered, it has to be registered in your name for the recovering agency to return it to you, so it creates an extra step in that scenario. Just sayin.

[Chewy65]

With the passing of Prop 63 in 2016, not only is it in your best interest, it is also a crime if you do not report it if lost or stolen.

First and second offenses are only "infractions" and arguably not "crimes".

PC 25265
(a) Every person who violates Section 25250 is, for a first violation, guilty of an infraction, punishable by a fine not to exceed one hundred dollars ($100).
(b) Every person who violates Section 25250 is, for a second violation, guilty of an infraction, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000).
(c) Every person who violates Section 25250 is, for a third or subsequent violation, guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding six months, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

[Blade Gunner]

What part of there is no legal requirement to do so don't you understand?

Now if it was stolen it would be in your best interest to do so just in case later on it's used in the commission of a crime.