Gifting of off-roster guns by family members

[eswrite]

Can someone point me to chapter & verse for which out of state family members can legally gift an off-roster gun to a CA resident?

[scotty99]

Grandparent, parent or child are the only options. No siblings, aunts, uncles, etc.

[SkyHawk]

Chapter and verse:

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=32110.

ARTICLE 6. Exceptions to Rules Governing Unsafe Handguns [32100 - 32110] ( Article 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

32110.
Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5 (commencing with Section 32000) shall not apply to any of the following:

(b) The sale, loan, or transfer of any firearm that is exempt from the provisions of Section 27545 pursuant to any applicable exemption contained in Article 2 (commencing with Section 27600) or Article 6 (commencing with Section 27850) of Chapter 4 of Division 6, if the sale, loan, or transfer complies with the requirements of that applicable exemption to Section 27545.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=27875.&lawCode=PEN

27875.
(a) Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a firearm by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means from one individual to another, if all of the following requirements are met:

(1) The transfer is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.

(2) The transfer is between members of the same immediate family.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=16720.

As used in this part, “immediate family member” means either of the following relationships:

(a) Parent and child.

(b) Grandparent and grandchild.

Step parents and parent-in-laws are excluded:

http://law.onecle.com/california/family/7601.html

(b) Parent and child relationship as used in this part means the legal relationship existing between a child and the child s natural or adoptive parents incident to which the law confers or imposes rights, privileges, duties, and obligations. The term includes the mother and child relationship and the father and child relationship.

Transmutattion of property between spouses is also exempt:

https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/family-code/fam-sect-850.html

And this is the wrong forum to ask this question. It should go to 'How CA laws apply to/effect me"

[BAJ475]

Chapter and verse:

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=32110.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=27875.&lawCode=PEN

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=16720.



Step parents and parent-in-laws are excluded:

http://law.onecle.com/california/family/7601.html

Transmutattion of property between spouses is also exempt:

https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/family-code/fam-sect-850.html

And this is the wrong forum to ask this question. It should go to 'How CA laws apply to/effect me"

So does the transfer by "other means" mean that my out of state son can sell me some of his off roster pistols that he purchased for himself? I understand that he cannot purchase a firearm with the intention of selling it to me, without violating federal law (straw purchase). So my question is limited to handguns that he already has that he purchased for himself. If this has previously been answered, please point me to the thread.

[edgerly779]

Intra familial. up down. No in laws, siblings, aunts or uncles.

[eswrite]

Thanks for the info, folks, and apologies for posting in the wrong group.

[Chewy65]

Skyhawk, I am not so sure about the definition in the statute you quote as by its own terms it refers to that part of the Family Code.

(b) Parent and child relationship as used in this part means the legal relationship existing between a child and the child s natural or adoptive parents incident to which the law confers or imposes rights, privileges, duties, and obligations. The term includes the mother and child relationship and the father and child relationship.

[Chewy65]

So does the transfer by "other means" mean that my out of state son can sell me some of his off roster pistols that he purchased for himself? I understand that he cannot purchase a firearm with the intention of selling it to me, without violating federal law (straw purchase). So my question is limited to handguns that he already has that he purchased for himself. If this has previously been answered, please point me to the thread.

Yes

[Dvrjon]

So does the transfer by "other means" mean that my out of state son can sell me some of his off roster pistols that he purchased for himself? I understand that he cannot purchase a firearm with the intention of selling it to me, without violating federal law (straw purchase). So my question is limited to handguns that he already has that he purchased for himself. If this has previously been answered, please point me to the thread.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/44...53009/download)

Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party.

If you provide compensation for the gift, you may fall under the SCOTUS Abramski decision https://supreme.justia.com/cases/fed.../opinion3.html

Best.

[PistolGrip11]

I have a friend that has some off roster pistols that he got transferred from his Dad out of California, to himself who lives in California.
He now wants to sell 2 of them, can he legally sell them now? ? ?

[BAJ475]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/44...53009/download)If you provide compensation for the gift, you may fall under the SCOTUS Abramski decision https://supreme.justia.com/cases/fed.../opinion3.html

Best.

I understand. That is why I phrased the question the way I did. Let me give an example that fits my question. When he lived in CA my son used the then existing SSE to purchase some off roster pistols for himself. He now lives in ID. What, if anything, would prevent him from selling one or more of these pistols to me, so long as the transfer goes through a CA FFL?

[Chewy65]

I have a friend that has some off roster pistols that he got transferred from his Dad out of California, to himself who lives in California.
He now wants to sell 2 of them, can he legally sell them now? ? ?

You should really start a new thread. but in a sense the answer is "yes". However, while he can legally sell them, he may be opening himself up to criminal charges for failing to follow federal and state law regarding the transfer from his father.

That transfer was required by 18 United States Code 922(a) to have been made by having the gun delivered to your friend in Califorina by a FFL located in the state who had received it from the resident of another state. Both father and son are looking at felony charges. See paragraphs (3) and (5) of 922(a).

Depending on when the off roster handguns were transferred, your friend may also be looking at felony charges for breach of California Penal Code section 27585(a):

Commencing January 1, 2015, a resident of this state shall not import into this state, bring into this state, or transport into this state, any firearm that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained on or after January 1, 2015, from outside of this state unless he or she first has that firearm delivered to a dealer in this state for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

You won't wait long for all the wink winkers to ask if you didn't mean that your friend's father is thinking of giving him those guns and if he does can you friend sell them.

[Chewy65]

I understand. That is why I phrased the question the way I did. Let me give an example that fits my question. When he lived in CA my son used the then existing SSE to purchase some off roster pistols for himself. He now lives in ID. What, if anything, would prevent him from selling one or more of these pistols to me, so long as the transfer goes through a CA FFL?

Nothing. The transfers will be subject to the 1 in 30 DROS rule.

[broadside]

You should really start a new thread. but in a sense the answer is "yes". However, while he can legally sell them, he may be opening himself up to criminal charges for failing to follow federal and state law regarding the transfer from his father.

That transfer was required by 18 United States Code 922(a) to have been made by having the gun delivered to your friend in Califorina by a FFL located in the state who had received it from the resident of another state. Both father and son are looking at felony charges. See paragraphs (3) and (5) of 922(a).

Depending on when the off roster handguns were transferred, your friend may also be looking at felony charges for breach of California Penal Code section 27585(a):



You won't wait long for all the wink winkers to ask if you didn't mean that your friend's father is thinking of giving him those guns and if he does can you friend sell them.

Where in Pistol's post does he indicate or even imply that did not happen? All he said was "transferred" from an out of state father to an in state son. We do not know if it was via FFL or not.

[gunnut714]

Nothing. The transfers will be subject to the 1 in 30 DROS rule.