Help - LA Sheriff Wont Return Stolen Gun They Recovered

[mark0805]

Hi all,

My neighbor's home was burglarized and the locked safe with his handgun was taken. Fortunately, the criminals were discovered and the safe and its contents have been recovered. However, it's now been a few months and my neighbor is hitting radio silence on his gun (at first it was just run around, now nothing).

Is there some formal procedure to recover his gun that would essentially force the PD to give it back? Asking nicely is obviously not working.

[haodoken]

BOF 119 Law Enforcement Gun Release Application

Under the Penal Code, individuals must complete a Law Enforcement Gun Release Application and submit it to the California Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms before your firearm(s) can be returned to you. You will be required to provide your personal information, firearm information (make, model, serial number, etc.), law enforcement agency information, and pay the applicable fee.

Once the California Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms determines that you are not prohibited from possessing firearms, they will issue you a letter stating that you may legally possess firearms. You can then make an appointment with the respective law enforcement agency in possession of your firearm(s) to pick-up your firearm(s).

[mark0805]

Thanks. I'll let him know. Its unfortunate no one at the Sheriff's office would tell him that. At least the fee is waived with proof that the gun was stolen.

[Chewy65]

Without knowing why it is being held, it is difficult to say and I call BS on your neighbor not knowing why the sheriff isn't returning it. If nothing else there is a good chance it is being held as evidence.

[broadside]

It can take a while, depending on trial needs (evidence), etc. It took 9 years to get my 1911 back after it was stolen from my brother (at the time it was legal to gift it to him without paperwork). The DEA found it in a shoebox in a closet during a drug raid. It sat in a plastic evidence bag rusting away for 9 years until the appeals ran out and was no longer required. It was recovered within a few months of being stolen, but the court/DA didn't release it for 9 years

I finally got a letter from the local PD where it was originally recovered from, filled out a DOJ form and sent them $19. I got paperwork back from DOJ and drove to PD with approval letter from DOJ and a lock box and I was able to pick it up. Still in the evidence bag, still with the evidence and case tags on it no less.

[P5Ret]

Without knowing why it is being held, it is difficult to say and I call BS on your neighbor not knowing why the sheriff isn't returning it. If nothing else there is a good chance it is being held as evidence.

^This.

It can take a while, depending on trial needs (evidence), etc. It took 9 years to get my 1911 back after it was stolen from my brother (at the time it was legal to gift it to him without paperwork). The DEA found it in a shoebox in a closet during a drug raid. It sat in a plastic evidence bag rusting away for 9 years until the appeals ran out and was no longer required. It was recovered within a few months of being stolen, but the court/DA didn't release it for 9 years

I finally got a letter from the local PD where it was originally recovered from, filled out a DOJ form and sent them $19. I got paperwork back from DOJ and drove to PD with approval letter from DOJ and a lock box and I was able to pick it up. Still in the evidence bag, still with the evidence and case tags on it no less.

And this ^.

I'd say it's probably being held as evidence for use at trial. Different DA's will have different requirements for evidence. Some will use a photo, while other's will want to have the actual object if possible. Don't expect this to be resolved quickly. The LEGR will not force the agency to release the guns. It will only tell them that the owner is able to possess them and they can be released. I wouldn't waste time filing the form until the agency tells him that they can be released.

[RickD427]

Mark,

I'm also a little disbelieving of your neighbors account. I spent more than 30 years with LASD and can tell you that the accountability processes for handling property (particularly firearms) are pretty extensive.

The fact that a firearm was recovered does not necessarily mean that it is available for release. There are many reasons for the agency to decline to return it to the owner. These include:

1) The LEGR process required by Penal Code section 33850 has not been completed.

2) The person seeking the return is a prohibited person.

3) The recovered weapon is in an illegal configuration.

4) The weapon is evidence in an ongoing legal prosecution.

5) The weapon is evidence in a current criminal investigation.

If LASD has not responded to your neighbor's request, then he/she may contact any Sheriff's Station, Jail, or Headquarters and request what is internally termed a "Service Review." This will place the neighbor in contact with a watch commander who will record the details of the issue, and provide the neighbor with a tracking number. They will receive a written response of the outcome.

I can guarantee you that your neighbor will receive a reply. I can't guarantee you that they will like that reply.

As previous posters have pointed out, please note that the law does provide for a waiver of LEGR fees in cases where a weapon was reported as stolen.

[mark0805]

Ok, look - I understand some of you have a gut reflex to defend the Sheriffs here. Maybe you feel like you're defending yourself somehow. My neighbor is a trustworthy father and husband who literally owned just that one gun. He's a civilian, so I'm just reaching out to the pros here to better understand the process because neither the Sheriff nor our local PD (multi-jurisdictional crime apparently) is communicating with him. So, I'd appreciate if we could please leave the bias at the door.

Thank you for the substantive information. I can follow the statutory and case law from here.

Rick, thanks for the "service review" suggestion. I'll pass that along. I imagine whatever the reason a governmental agency is holding on to private property, it should put that reason in writing to the innocent victim who owns that property and give some explanation of the process to set expectations.

[Chewy65]

Ok, look - I understand some of you have a gut reflex to defend the Sheriffs here. Maybe you feel like you're defending yourself somehow. My neighbor is a trustworthy father and husband who literally owned just that one gun. He's a civilian, so I'm just reaching out to the pros here to better understand the process because neither the Sheriff nor our local PD (multi-jurisdictional crime apparently) is communicating with him. So, I'd appreciate if we could please leave the bias at the door.

Thank you for the substantive information. I can follow the statutory and case law from here.

Rick, thanks for the "service review" suggestion. I'll pass that along. I imagine whatever the reason a governmental agency is holding on to private property, it should put that reason in writing to the innocent victim who owns that property and give some explanation of the process to set expectations.

It sounds like if anyone has bias it isn't those members that sought to help you and by extension your neighbor. You do realize that you never said that no governmental agency hadn't put things in writing to your neighbor?

[SVT-40]

Hi all,

My neighbor's home was burglarized and the locked safe with his handgun was taken. Fortunately, the criminals were discovered and the safe and its contents have been recovered. However, it's now been a few months and my neighbor is hitting radio silence on his gun (at first it was just run around, now nothing).

Is there some formal procedure to recover his gun that would essentially force the PD to give it back? Asking nicely is obviously not working.

Obviously there was some sort of communication between the gun owner and the recovering agency, as he was notified of the recovery.

How was the gun owner notified of the recovery of his pistol? What was told to him at the time?

What exact "run around" did he receive?

Without knowing what was exactly told to the gun owner and by who all your speculation is just that ... "Speculation".

A PD cannot be "forced" to return the pistol. The PD must abide by the law and if necessary retain the pistol until it's no longer needed as evidence as Rick indicated above.

Only then can they release the pistol.

I would bet he was already told this, as it's a pretty standard situation.

Ok, look - I understand some of you have a gut reflex to defend the Sheriffs here. Maybe you feel like you're defending yourself somehow. My neighbor is a trustworthy father and husband who literally owned just that one gun. He's a civilian, so I'm just reaching out to the pros here to better understand the process because neither the Sheriff nor our local PD (multi-jurisdictional crime apparently) is communicating with him. So, I'd appreciate if we could please leave the bias at the door.

See the bold above.

When the pistol is ready for release in all likelihood the LASD will return the pistol to the agency who was responsible for the original stolen firearm report...

However that will be decided by the two agencies...

So simply blaming the LASD is not reasonable.

Your neighbor could be the greatest guy on earth.. However that changes nothing.

These things take time. Having two different Law Enforcement agencies involved only makes it a more complicated process. Add to that the DA's office as well as the courts, and it may be sometime..

As for "bias"?

You two could maybe look in the mirror, as every answer that has been given has only been an explanation as to how and why the processes are what they are.

No one doubt's the gun owner isn't a great guy, and simply a victim ...

We just realize there are many many layers involved in these investigations, and sometimes people we talk to and tell information to don't really understand what they were told. Even if they say they do...

I would be willing to guess he was told it will take time and to wait until he is contacted...

The cops just can't tell him the amount of time, because they simply don't know.

[Gryff]

I just finished jumping through some hoops with the San Joaquin County Sheriffs Dept. to get back some pistols that my dad had in the house when he passed away.

Here is what helped me:

- Know the court/criminal case #
- Know the guns' serial numbers
- Track down what property sergeant is responsible for managing the firearms evidence inventory.

Took me a few calls to get a response from SJCSO, but when I did, the sergeant informed me that the guns first have to be test fired and then have the empty cases compared to the database for gun crimes. If the guns don't show as being used in a crime, then you have to submit the release form to the state DOJ. Once the state generates a letter that it's okay to receive them, then you schedule a time with the LEA to go pick them up.

I would imagine the main issue the OP faces is that the guns are evidence in a criminal investigation. Try to find out the officer responsible for them, and then politely and patiently ask him what he needs you to do as the next step in the process.

[Gryff]

My neighbor is a trustworthy father and husband who literally owned just that one gun. He's a civilian, so I'm just reaching out to the pros here to better understand the process because neither the Sheriff nor our local PD (multi-jurisdictional crime apparently) is communicating with him. So, I'd appreciate if we could please leave the bias at the door.

Just remember that most cops that deal with evidence also have significant other duties. Busy people rarely intend to be dicks, but sometimes the process of work prioritization causes things to fall between the cracks. Be polite, but persistant. When you finally reach someone, be prepared to write down everything they tell you regarding process, dates, and names. I think it helped my cause a lot that I could name the officers that I had spoken to previously, and the dates on which I had spoken with them.

[Pardini]

I just finished jumping through some hoops with the San Joaquin County Sheriffs Dept. to get back some pistols that my dad had in the house when he passed away.

Here is what helped me:

- Know the court/criminal case #
- Know the guns' serial numbers
- Track down what property sergeant is responsible for managing the firearms evidence inventory.

Took me a few calls to get a response from SJCSO, but when I did, the sergeant informed me that the guns first have to be test fired and then have the empty cases compared to the database for gun crimes. If the guns don't show as being used in a crime, then you have to submit the release form to the state DOJ. Once the state generates a letter that it's okay to receive them, then you schedule a time with the LEA to go pick them up.

I would imagine the main issue the OP faces is that the guns are evidence in a criminal investigation. Try to find out the officer responsible for them, and then politely and patiently ask him what he needs you to do as the next step in the process.

Sorry you lost your Father.

What are the circumstances of the SJCSO seizing the guns? It's hard to imagine the they seize and test every deceased gun owners firearms.

[Gryff]

Sorry you lost your Father.

What are the circumstances of the SJCSO seizing the guns? It's hard to imagine the they seize and test every deceased gun owners firearms.

My Dad passed away at his home unexpectedly, and a friend called the police when Dad wouldn't answer his phone or the door. The coroner removed his body before I could get their, so the sheriff's deputies removed the two handguns that were visible in the home for safe keeping (they also removed a laptop).

When getting the details from the SJCSO on what I needed to do to get the items back, they told me that both guns needed to be fired and the results input into IBIS to make sure there was no connection to any crimes. They said that this was standard for any gun taken into possession by the SJCSO. I'm sure that was some form of Fourth Amendment violation, but it just wasn't worth a fight while trying to get the guns back (one had a lot of sentimental value...a Walther PPK/s that I shot a lot when I was a kid, and the other was a nice Kimber commander-size 1911 with factory laser grips).

[Win231]

This situation illustrates why it's not a good idea to own only one gun. If it is stolen or used in a defensive situation the owner will likely be without it for years, if not forever.