Transfer of Ownership Question

[kaidoi888]

Apologies in advance if this was previously covered in another thread, but I couldn't find a good answer. My friend's (Jane) father (Mark) purchased two pistols in the 1980's. He passed away in 2000 and was survived by his wife (Betty) and Jane. Betty has recently become hospitalized (mental illness) and Jane began to clean Betty's house. Jane came across the two pistols that Mark had purchased in the 80's and told her mother about the discovery. Betty would like to transfer the ownership of the weapons to me, as Jane is not an FSC holder, nor does she want the weapons. Betty is not in the position to accompany me (or anyone) to an FFL to facilitate a PPT.

What is the best way to handle the transfer?

[nn3453]

Probably not the right forum, someone will move it.

Does Mark have any children? Best way might be for a child to take possession, file the Intra-familial transfer form and then sell/give it to you down the road.

[Librarian]

Mark (decd) and Betty, parents

Jane, child.

Under the described circumstances, the easy way is
Jane gets FSC, files OPLAW, does PPT to you.

Otherwise, looks like Jane must be formally appointed conservator for Betty, then follows the law on what a conservator may do with the conservatee's property (I don't know what that involves).

Or, Betty gives Jane power of attorney to dispose of the guns - but if Betty isn't up to visiting an FFL, there might be questions of her competence to actually do that.

[kaidoi888]

Transfer of Ownership Question

Thank you

[strongpoint]

Mark (decd) and Betty, parents

Jane, child.

OP states that Mark is Jane's dad and Betty is Mark's wife, which doesn't necessarily mean that Betty is Jane's mom.

[johnnycharro]

Only the person having the firearm transferred to needs the FSC. Did one last year, wife of deceased PPT'd me 4 firearms. Weren't even registered to her. Ammo Bros. DOJ doesn't care, they only want to know who currently has it.

[kaidoi888]

Only the person having the firearm transferred to needs the FSC. Did one last year, wife of deceased PPT'd me 4 firearms. Weren't even registered to her. Ammo Bros. DOJ doesn't care, they only want to know who currently has it.

I do have an FSC/HSC. If I proceed with this procedure, do I use the "Operation of Law" form, or "Report of Ownership"? If I use the incorrect form, will the CA DOJ keep my money? After all, I am not related to Betty or Jane.

--------

Betty is indeed Jane's biological mother. Jane does not want to take possession, nor take an FSC exam.

[Librarian]

OP states that Mark is Jane's dad and Betty is Mark's wife, which doesn't necessarily mean that Betty is Jane's mom.

In the OP

He passed away in 2000 and was survived by his wife (Betty) and Jane.

as well as asserted in a later post.

Only the person having the firearm transferred to needs the FSC. Did one last year, wife of deceased PPT'd me 4 firearms. Weren't even registered to her. Ammo Bros. DOJ doesn't care, they only want to know who currently has it.

'Betty' is not deceased. So probate law or execution of a will are not on the table. The administrator of an estate or the executor of a will has powers to do things; no such role is apparent here.

Betty is apparently the owner of Mark's firearms, by inheritance or other process.

While Jane might get away with selling something that is not her property, that is poor advice.

Betty is indeed Jane's biological mother. Jane does not want to take possession, nor take an FSC exam.

It appears Jane is the blocking factor here.

[strongpoint]

In the OP

as well as asserted in a later post.

OP was ambiguous; later post clears it up. Just wanted to make sure we weren't overlooking a potential complication.

[Librarian]

OP was ambiguous; later post clears it up. Just wanted to make sure we weren't overlooking a potential complication.

Fair criticism - I've missed those before

[kaidoi888]

I tried calling CA DOJ Bureau of Firearms earlier today to speak with someone about this situation, but the phone tree does not allow for it. I will send an email message to them to see if I can get a response.

[Chewy65]

It would be nice if posters mentioned little details, like whether or not a will or trust was involved or if the person simply died intestate. Talk with an attorney. If the guns were purchased with the earnings of either Mark or Betty while residents of CA, and there was no intent to transmute the funds used or the guns to separate property, and Mark died intestate, the guns are Betty's. Like others suggested, she can give them to the daughter who trnasfers ownership as the gift of the Mother. Daughter than can do a PPT. Just because Mom is in a mental hospital does not mean she lacks competence to sell or give the guns away. If she is incompetent, the gift to the daughter is voidable or void (I don't recall which) and the power of attorney would also be a nullity.

[kaidoi888]

Best answer I got from Jane was that firearms were not specifically noted in the will. Thanks for your input.

[kaidoi888]

Update: I spoke with a BOF DOJ representative about this and was advised of two options.

1. If Betty completes, signs and notarizes the "General Notice of Firearm Prohibition & Power of Attorney" Form BOF110, I could take the weapons along with the completed form to an FFL to complete the transfer. Or,

2. Upon Jane taking possession of the weapons, she has 30 days to transfer the weapons to me via PPT through an FFL, and would not need to complete the "Operation of Law or Intrafamilial Transfer" form. Jane would be exempt from the FSC requirement. If Jane's possession exceeds 30 days, she would need to complete and submit that form.

Hope this information helps. But please validate this information yourself with DOJ if you are ever in this similar situation and need clarification.

[Chewy65]

Best answer I got from Jane was that firearms were not specifically noted in the will. Thanks for your input.

Didn't need to dump on you, but the fact that their was a will might make a huge difference. I assume that the decedent (Mark) was also a CA resident and everyone involved is one. At the time, wasn't the disposition of the guns subject to a report and approval of the probate court. Not know if that applies to a small estate without real estate probate. If the DOJ was correct, do #2.