Why does a CA Tavor even need a maglock?

[itsmejt]

CA law does not say a pistol grip is an "evil feature". It says "a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously BENEATH THE ACTION
of the weapon. (PC 30515)

The word "conspicuously" means clearly or obviously. The whole point of the bullpup design puts the pistol grip and trigger ahead of the action and NOT beneath it.

The action is the mechanism or bolt that handles the ammunition, i.e. loads, locks, fires, and extracts the cartridges.

In a Tavor the pistol grip/trigger is NOT clearly or obviously beneath this area.

One might then argue that the pistol grip in a Tavor is actually a "forward pistol grip", PC 30515. However, a forward pistol grip is called such because it is used by your forward most hand. If you do not specifically add a forward grip to your Tavor, then I do not see how this applies.

IWI added the maglock to the CA compliant Tavors, which is great because it leaves no doubt to the legality of the weapon. But given the recent legislation, could you consider it featureless (of course you also would need the 4.65" muzzle break to meet the 30" requirement)

So call it featureless and remove the maglock?

Please don't beat me up, but I would be interested in your feedback...I know...I know...good luck explaining this to the leo, da, or judge. Maybe I am just grasping at straws.

[wagon b0y]

I'm guessing because even though its in front of the action, its still below it.

But if you argue it that way. turn the gun upside down so the pistol grip is on top of the action and you don't need a maglock? hmm

[dyson]

inal, but i believe its determined by a horizontal line drawn parallel below the action, if the grip goes conspicuously goes below that its a pistol grip. doesn't matter if in front or behind. if you can wrap your thump around it, gonna be very questionable.

[Drew Eckhardt]

CA law does not say a pistol grip is an "evil feature". It says "a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously BENEATH THE ACTION
of the weapon. (PC 30515)

The word "conspicuously" means clearly or obviously.

unless defined differently by law, rule, or regulation

11 CCR 5469
The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 30515:

It has a pistol grip because you can place the web of your trigger hand below the red line while firing grasping it as you would a pistol.

[itsmejt]

Thanks Drew. 11 CCR 5469 definitively answers my question. Way too many laws to wade through.

[Nodaedul]

Sounds like we need to design a rifle with the pistol grip coming out the side of the gun.

[Quiet]

Featureless bullpup...

Kel-Tec RDB-C

[Capybara]

Featureless bullpup...

Kel-Tec RDB-C

Wow, interesting idea. Is that a real Kel Tec than can be bought or was it just a tradeshow concept?

[Quiet]

Wow, interesting idea. Is that a real Kel Tec than can be bought or was it just a tradeshow concept?

Projected release date is Q1 2017.

[RED (Y)]

Sooo if after 1/1/17 if i put Kydex Wrap on my Tavor i don't need to register it as RAW,right?It will be featureless?

[kcheung2]

Sooo if after 1/1/17 if i put Kydex Wrap on my Tavor i don't need to register it as RAW,right?It will be featureless?

Features are: collapsible/foldable stock (don't have that), pistol grip (with a kydex wrap it won't have that), foregrip (you probably don't have that), and a flash hider (don't know if you have that).

Get rid of those features & it's featureless.

[RED (Y)]

collapsible/foldable stock (don't have that)

Nope,but the length requirement of 30 inches total length still applies,right?

pistol grip (with a kydex wrap it won't have that)

Yep

foregrip (you probably don't have that)

Stock one,which doesn't count AFAIK

a flash hider (don't know if you have that)

These are both flash hiders or the long one is muzzle brake?

Sounds like i need Kydex Wrap and
I was thinking about going RAW but the more i read about all the additional rules for the RAW i feel like i would rather take bullet button off and go featureless with muzzle brake and Kydex Wrap.

[kcheung2]

For the long one, I can't tell without looking out the front opening, but it's likely a flash hider. A brake has a small exit hole while a fh has a large one.

The Tavor brake & kydex is the direction I'm going also.

[Scratch705]

unless defined differently by law, rule, or regulation







It has a pistol grip because you can place the web of your trigger hand below the red line while firing grasping it as you would a pistol.

this makes me wonder if the vector is technically a non-pistol gripped firearm?

i mean the action is actually in two parts, and 1 part is in front and when firing below the grip.


as seen here, half the action is always technically below the grip

[Quiet]

this makes me wonder if the vector is technically a non-pistol gripped firearm?

i mean the action is actually in two parts, and 1 part is in front and when firing below the grip.


as seen here, half the action is always technically below the grip

KRISS USA says it's a pistol grip.

It's why they make and sell their CA legal Vector rifles with "bullet button" style maglocks and a 10 round magazine.

Hard to argue it's not, when the manufacturer says it is.