Interstate inheritance

[Jared1981]

Question.

An Arizona resident was left a CA "assault weapon" via inheritance. Can he legally go to California and take possession of the rifle to transport it out of state.

Some people are saying that's not possible due to a catch 22, but from my understanding this would be legal.

Does anyone have a current citation to the law? I know the law says you have 90 days to move it out of state upon taking possession; however, there is confusion to if their is a catch 22 to where they can not take possession of it in California due to the FFL transfer requirement.

We are clear on Federal law and Arizona law.

[Cokebottle]

Catch 22 indeed.
Safest would be to have a knowledgeable FFL with an AW permit to take possession from the executor and ship the gun to AZ.

[P5Ret]

I believe federal law does not require a ffl on an inheritance. Check with an attorney, on how to get it into the hands of the person out of state, and to check on AZ laws. It may be as simple as picking it up in a secured case and transport out, but check with an attorney, before taking advise off the web.

[Jared1981]

I believe federal law does not require a ffl on an inheritance. Check with an attorney, on how to get it into the hands of the person out of state, and to check on AZ laws. It may be as simple as picking it up in a secured case and transport out, but check with an attorney, before taking advise off the web.

We know AZ and federal law.

We are asking because if someone has specific cites then we don't need an attorney. Not to mention we routinely correct attorneys in my home state so sometimes getting references from subject matter experts is actually better than asking an attorney.

Of course, any attorney on here can chime in.

[Librarian]

The current PC that applies is at http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...er=2.&article=.

Looks like 30655 would allow an executor to move the gun around without penalty.

On point, 30915

30915.


Any person who obtains title to an assault weapon registered under this article or that was possessed pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 30630 by bequest or intestate succession shall, within 90 days, do one or more of the following:

(a) Render the weapon permanently inoperable.

(b) Sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer.

(c) Obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 32650) of Chapter 6.

(d) Remove the weapon from this state.

Looks like the person inheriting may remove the gun from the state.

But this is the first time I've heard of this section applying where the gun was able to leave the state ...

[Chewy65]

So at what point does the person inheriting actual inherit and obtain title? Is the inheritance subject to probate? Is there a will or is the inheritance by intestacy? Or was there a trust and was the RAW in the trust?

This is anything but a simple issue and I suggest speaking with a good gun attorney, even if you think you know more than one. You may also want to take a look at this, by Bill Wiese. It may be out of date, but it says you cannot inherit a RAW.

A person cannot acquire an AW in CA and then move it out of state - transporting an illegal unreg'd AW is a worse crime (felony) than simple illlegal possession (wobbler).

However, the actual executor of an estate with an AW has 90 days in which he could, in theory, do this. And a named stripped receiver is arguably not an AW, but it's insane to go to court and spend $$$$$$ to defend a $100 receiver.

[fiddletown]

...Of course, any attorney on here can chime in.

I'm an attorney, and I'm chiming in.

...We are clear on Federal law and Arizona law.

But are you clear on the laws relating to inheritance?

Is there a will? Was the gun specifically bequeathed to the Arizona resident. Was the will admitted to probate? In what State? Who is named in the will the executor? Has the person named in the will to be the executor qualified and been issued letters testamentary by the probate judge? Have the debts of the decedent been settled? Is there any dispute among the beneficiaries regarding the disposition of any of the decedent's property?

If there is no will, is there a trust? Who is the trustee? What does the trust provide regarding the disposition of the decedent's property? Have the debts of the decedent been settled? Is there any dispute among the beneficiaries regarding the disposition of any of the decedent's property?

If there's no will or trust, the property passes under the applicable intestate succession laws. Has someone petitioned the probate court to be named as administrator of the decedent's estate? Has that person qualified and been issued letters of administration by the probate judge? Is the resident of Arizona the recipient of some portion of the decedent's property under the applicable intestate succession laws? Have the debts of the decedent been settled? Is there any dispute among the decedent's relatives regarding the disposition of any of the decedent's property?

Here's roughly how inheritance works:

1. When there's a written will, it normally must be submitted to probate in court.
   
   
   1. The will ordinarily designates an executor (i. e., the personal representative of the decedent). That person is not the executor unless and until the will is admitted to probate in the proper court and the court issues Letters Testamentary recognizing that person as executor.
      
      
   2. The executor once qualified then proceeds to identify and account for the assets of the estate. He may need to collect debts owed the decedent and manage property or other assets of the estate. He might also need to sell assets of the estate to raise funds to pay debts of the decedent and/or taxes. He or she then pays debts and taxes of the decedent under court supervision.
      
      
   3. The executor then handles, again under court supervision, distribution of the assets of the estate in accordance with the terms of the written will.
   
   
   
2. Intestate succession when someone dies without a will is not some informal dividing up of the decedent's property amongst the relatives. It's a highly formalized procedure.
   
   
   1. First, someone has to go to the proper court and apply to be named the administrator (i. e., the personal representative of the decedent to wind up the estate) of the decedent's estate.
      
      
   2. Once the court has issued an order designating someone as the administrator, that person proceeds to identify and account for the assets of the estate. He or she then uses those assets to pay any remaining debts of the decedent and any taxes due. This is all done under the supervision of the court.
      
      
   3. After the debts and taxes are paid, the administrator, under court supervision, will distribute any remaining assets to those relatives entitled under the applicable statutes to a share of the estate. Only those relatives specifically identified in the applicable statutes are entitled to a share of the decedent's property, and only in the proportion set out in the applicable statutes.
   
   
   
3. So --
   
   
   1. If there's a will, the gun will ultimately go to whomever the will says it goes to, and it will be up to the executor to deliver, as approved by the probate court and in compliance with applicable law, the gun to that person.
      
      
   2. If there's no will the gun actually belongs to whomever would get it under the applicable intestate succession law. If that's not the resident of Arizona you mentioned, then the gun doesn't belong to him. They belong to someone else. If that person wants to give the gun to someone, that's fine; but they will need to transfer it in a manner that complies with applicable law.

It's true that often, if there's not a lot of property involved, the relatives don't bother with the formalities and just divide everything up. That usually works out as long as no one complains, but it's not necessarily legal. And if there are conflicting claims on the property or if the decedent left significant debts or unpaid taxes, informality could result in serious complications down the road.

[Jared1981]

I'm an attorney, and I'm chiming in.

But are you clear on the laws relating to inheritance?

Is there a will? Was the gun specifically bequeathed to the Arizona resident. Was the will admitted to probate? In what State? Who is named in the will the executor? Has the person named in the will to be the executor qualified and been issued letters testamentary by the probate judge? Have the debts of the decedent been settled? Is there any dispute among the beneficiaries regarding the disposition of any of the decedent's property?

If there is no will, is there a trust? Who is the trustee? What does the trust provide regarding the disposition of the decedent's property? Have the debts of the decedent been settled? Is there any dispute among the beneficiaries regarding the disposition of any of the decedent's property?

If there's no will or trust, the property passes under the applicable intestate succession laws. Has someone petitioned the probate court to be named as administrator of the decedent's estate? Has that person qualified and been issued letters of administration by the probate judge? Is the resident of Arizona the recipient of some portion of the decedent's property under the applicable intestate succession laws? Have the debts of the decedent been settled? Is there any dispute among the decedent's relatives regarding the disposition of any of the decedent's property?

Here's roughly how inheritance works:

1. When there's a written will, it normally must be submitted to probate in court.
   
   
   1. The will ordinarily designates an executor (i. e., the personal representative of the decedent). That person is not the executor unless and until the will is admitted to probate in the proper court and the court issues Letters Testamentary recognizing that person as executor.
      
      
   2. The executor once qualified then proceeds to identify and account for the assets of the estate. He may need to collect debts owed the decedent and manage property or other assets of the estate. He might also need to sell assets of the estate to raise funds to pay debts of the decedent and/or taxes. He or she then pays debts and taxes of the decedent under court supervision.
      
      
   3. The executor then handles, again under court supervision, distribution of the assets of the estate in accordance with the terms of the written will.
   
   
   
2. Intestate succession when someone dies without a will is not some informal dividing up of the decedent's property amongst the relatives. It's a highly formalized procedure.
   
   
   1. First, someone has to go to the proper court and apply to be named the administrator (i. e., the personal representative of the decedent to wind up the estate) of the decedent's estate.
      
      
   2. Once the court has issued an order designating someone as the administrator, that person proceeds to identify and account for the assets of the estate. He or she then uses those assets to pay any remaining debts of the decedent and any taxes due. This is all done under the supervision of the court.
      
      
   3. After the debts and taxes are paid, the administrator, under court supervision, will distribute any remaining assets to those relatives entitled under the applicable statutes to a share of the estate. Only those relatives specifically identified in the applicable statutes are entitled to a share of the decedent's property, and only in the proportion set out in the applicable statutes.
   
   
   
3. So --
   
   
   1. If there's a will, the gun will ultimately go to whomever the will says it goes to, and it will be up to the executor to deliver, as approved by the probate court and in compliance with applicable law, the gun to that person.
      
      
   2. If there's no will the gun actually belongs to whomever would get it under the applicable intestate succession law. If that's not the resident of Arizona you mentioned, then the gun doesn't belong to him. They belong to someone else. If that person wants to give the gun to someone, that's fine; but they will need to transfer it in a manner that complies with applicable law.

It's true that often, if there's not a lot of property involved, the relatives don't bother with the formalities and just divide everything up. That usually works out as long as no one complains, but it's not necessarily legal. And if there are conflicting claims on the property or if the decedent left significant debts or unpaid taxes, informality could result in serious complications down the road.

Keeping it simple....

1. They can legally have the firearm in Arizona.

2. The item is specifically willed to the person.

3. No known plan of anyone to contest the will.

What people are arguing about is that the penal code says they have 90 days to move the weapon out of state, but others are saying they can't take possession of a weapon. That's a catch 22 and would force someone to commit a felony.

If that was the case, then the rifle would stay in the closet and no one could touch it except for the police.

That doesn't make any sense so the question is, due to the penal code, and assuming all legal complications over contested wills are resolved, can he still take possession of the firearm to move it out of state?

If not then how can he do it since it everything people are saying would result in the rifle sitting in the closet collecting dust until someone calls 911 since apparently no one is allowed to touch the firearm?

[Chewy65]

Keeping it simple....

1. They can legally have the firearm in Arizona.

2. The item is specifically willed to the person.

3. No known plan of anyone to contest the will.

What people are arguing about is that the penal code says they have 90 days to move the weapon out of state, but others are saying they can't take possession of a weapon. That's a catch 22 and would force someone to commit a felony.

If that was the case, then the rifle would stay in the closet and no one could touch it except for the police.

That doesn't make any sense so the question is, due to the penal code, and assuming all legal complications over contested wills are resolved, can he still take possession of the firearm to move it out of state?

If not then how can he do it since it everything people are saying would result in the rifle sitting in the closet collecting dust until someone calls 911 since apparently no one is allowed to touch the firearm?

Keeping it simple can get you tagged with a Federal felony. I suggested talking with a good attorney. Fiddletown is not only an attorney, but from what I have seen he is a good one.

Why do people ask for advice and then ignore it?

Without looking up the answer for someone who will just ignore it if it isn't to their taste, I believe you will find that the reason the executor has 90 days to remove the RAW is that he/she has authority from the court to take possession of assets. There may have not heard that anyone plans on contesting the will because notice of probate has not been given and just who is the executor, if one is named?

[Jared1981]

Keeping it simple can get you tagged with a Federal felony. I suggested talking with a good attorney. Fiddletown is not only an attorney, but from what I have seen he is a good one.

Why do people ask for advice and then ignore it?

Without looking up the answer for someone who will just ignore it if it isn't to their taste, I believe you will find that the reason the executor has 90 days to remove the RAW is that he/she has authority from the court to take possession of assets. There may have not heard that anyone plans on contesting the will because notice of probate has not been given and just who is the executor, if one is named?

And Fiddletown asked for clarification. Now he has it. So please calm down, no one is "ignoring" him.

[fiddletown]

And Fiddletown asked for clarification. Now he has it. So please calm down, no one is "ignoring" him.

Except you didn't answer a number of the questions.

In any case, if the gun was left to the person in a will, it'll be up to the executor to deal with the question -- subject to the jurisdiction of the probate court. So this is really beyond the scope of anything we should be dealing with here.

[Jared1981]

Except you didn't answer a number of the questions.

In any case, if the gun was left to the person in a will, it'll be up to the executor to deal with the question -- subject to the jurisdiction of the probate court. So this is really beyond the scope of anything we should be dealing with here.

I tried my best, I'll try again. It appears that the will issues are sorted out. Assuming things stay this was and probabte clears the issue and tells the heir in Arizona that he is now the owner of the "assault weapon".

Can he, at that point, take possession of the firearm to remove it from California without being in violation of taking possession of the gun without going through a CA FFL or any other provision of CA law that would conflict with the inheritance issue.

Or would the executor have to be the one to move the rifle out of state to give the firearm to the heir in Arizona?

If I'm not being clear on something, please let me know.

Thanks

[fiddletown]

...Assuming things stay this was and probabte clears the issue and tells the heir in Arizona that he is now the owner of the "assault weapon".

Can he, at that point, take possession of the firearm to remove it from California without being in violation of taking possession of the gun without going through a CA FFL or any other provision of CA law that would conflict with the inheritance issue.

Or would the executor have to be the one to move the rifle out of state to give the firearm to the heir in Arizona?....

Oh, I'm not going to try to answer that, nor could I imagine any other lawyer taking a stab at it under these circumstances. This is an ongoing, real life legal matter of some significance. Hopefully the executor has consulted legal counsel and is addressing these issue.

You might well get a variety of answers here from a variety of people with varying levels of knowledge and understanding. One would rely on such information at his risk.

[Jared1981]

Oh, I'm not going to try to answer that, nor could I imagine any other lawyer taking a stab at it under these circumstances. This is an ongoing, real life legal matter of some significance. Hopefully the executor has consulted legal counsel and is addressing these issue.

You might well get a variety of answers here from a variety of people with varying levels of knowledge and understanding. One would rely on such information at his risk.

Then how are these issues normally dealt with for out of state inheritance? The firearm has to someone get transported from California to another state? It seems crazy that there is no clear way to take possession of the gun to relocate it.

[SkyHawk]

Read this

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php?title=Inheriting_firearms,_both_within_California_and_Interstate

If the guns were willed or bequeathed to this person, they are theirs now. You can't do a transfer of guns from a dead person. Fed law says that person who inherited them can come get them or have them shipped to to them without using a FFL. CA law simply says inherited AW must leave the state within 90 days.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/30915.html

30915. Any person who obtains title to an assault weapon registered
under this article or that was possessed pursuant to subdivision (a)
of Section 30630 by bequest or intestate succession shall, within 90
days, do one or more of the following:
(a) Render the weapon permanently inoperable.
(b) Sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer.
(c) Obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same
manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 32650) of
Chapter 6.
(d) Remove the weapon from this state.

If the person who inherited these was a CA resident, things would be a little different. But since the person is a AZ resident, I really don't see what the confusion is.