Executor Question

[ugimports]

I have a customer whose uncle died.
Her mom (uncle's sister) is the executor of the estate
My customer is getting 4 pistols

Can the mom hand over all 4 pistols in her executor role and daughter file 1 OpLaw form?
Or must this be done at a dealer through PPT from Mom -> Daughter?
Or can the mom take possession of all 4 (1 OpLaw form) and intrafamily transfer them to daughter (1 OpLaw form)?

[Librarian]

I have a customer whose uncle died.
Her mom (uncle's sister) is the executor of the estate
My customer is getting 4 pistols

1) Can the mom hand over all 4 pistols in her executor role and daughter file 1 OpLaw form?

2) Or must this be done at a dealer through PPT from Mom -> Daughter?

3) Or can the mom take possession of all 4 (1 OpLaw form) and intrafamily transfer them to daughter (1 OpLaw form)?

Assuming all else is in order - for instance, daughter is a named recipient of the guns, and Mom and Uncle and Daughter are all CA residents ---

1) yes

2) no

3) yes, but since (1) is yes, seems redundant.

If Mom is not a CA resident, or Uncle was not a CA resident, things get messier.

CA requires inheritance to be intrafamilial to be exempt from the Roster (and, inside CA, exempt from the FFL). So, if Uncle lived out of CA, and Mother does live in CA, neither daughter nor Mother/sister could receive off-Roster handguns. Niece and Sister are not part of CA's silly intrafamilial definition.

If both Uncle and Mother live out of CA, then the mother acquires them under that state's laws, and sends them to a CA FFL for intrafamilial - usual DROS and such, Roster-exempt.

[MCorwin@michellawyers.com]

This question involves more than just firearms law, and you should not be giving legal advice.

[emtmark]

This question involves more than just firearms law, and you should not be giving legal advice.

I know your time is valuable and as such I'm sure you meant to say that in maybe a gentler manner. But Lib gives a lot of time and energy to this forum and honestly that rubbed me a little raw. Perhaps an explanation or pointer to go along with your indignant huff could help the OP instead of chopping at the knees of a respected mod.


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[MCorwin@michellawyers.com]

I know your time is valuable and as such I'm sure you meant to say that in maybe a gentler manner. But Lib gives a lot of time and energy to this forum and honestly that rubbed me a little raw. Perhaps an explanation or pointer to go along with your indignant huff could help the OP instead of chopping at the knees of a respected mod.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My comment was directed at the OP, not Librarian.

[ugimports]

Assuming all else is in order - for instance, daughter is a named recipient of the guns, and Mom and Uncle and Daughter are all CA residents ---

1) yes

2) no

3) yes, but since (1) is yes, seems redundant.

If Mom is not a CA resident, or Uncle was not a CA resident, things get messier.

CA requires inheritance to be intrafamilial to be exempt from the Roster (and, inside CA, exempt from the FFL). So, if Uncle lived out of CA, and Mother does live in CA, neither daughter nor Mother/sister could receive off-Roster handguns. Niece and Sister are not part of CA's silly intrafamilial definition.

If both Uncle and Mother live out of CA, then the mother acquires them under that state's laws, and sends them to a CA FFL for intrafamilial - usual DROS and such, Roster-exempt.

All CA residents. I notified the customer that in theory she could do #1, but to have her confirm with her attorney.

[fiddletown]

...Her mom (uncle's sister) is the executor of the estate...

Are you sure? Do you know that there is in fact a will? Has the will been admitted to probate? Has the judge of the Probate Court issued the decedent's sister Letters Testamentary establishing that she has qualified as the the executor?

I actually wouldn't expect you to necessarily know. I raise the questions simply to illustrate that there might well be more to this than meets the eye and that there might be some highly technical issues which need to be understood and considered. Folks frequently use the term "executor" far too casually.

In fact, when one starts dealing with matters relating to the disposition of someone's property after death, things can get very technical and very "non-intuitive." Sorting things out usually calls for the efforts of a qualified attorney with full access to all relevant information.

[ugimports]

Are you sure? Do you know that there is in fact a will? Has the will been admitted to probate? Has the judge of the Probate Court issued the decedent's sister Letters Testamentary establishing that she has qualified as the the executor?

I actually wouldn't expect you to necessarily know. I raise the questions simply to illustrate that there might well be more to this than meets the eye and that there might be some highly technical issues which need to be understood and considered. Folks frequently use the term "executor" far too casually.

In fact, when one starts dealing with matters relating to the disposition of someone's property after death, things can get very technical and very "non-intuitive." Sorting things out usually calls for the efforts of a qualified attorney with full access to all relevant information.

Do I know for sure, no. As recommended above I gave her my opinion, but told ehr to consult an attorney to verify because I was merely guessing.

[Librarian]

My comment was directed at the OP, not Librarian.

Though occasionally I get them too, deservedly.

And, y'know what? I'm going to switch my reply.

Originally Posted by ugimports
I have a customer whose uncle died.
Her mom (uncle's sister) is the executor of the estate
My customer is getting 4 pistols

1) Can the mom hand over all 4 pistols in her executor role and daughter file 1 OpLaw form?

2) Or must this be done at a dealer through PPT from Mom -> Daughter?

3) Or can the mom take possession of all 4 (1 OpLaw form) and intrafamily transfer them to daughter (1 OpLaw form)?

Assuming all else is in order - for instance, daughter is a named recipient of the guns, and Mom and Uncle and Daughter are all CA residents ---

1) yes

2) no

3) yes, but since (1) is yes, seems redundant.

Because I wrote this right after

CA requires inheritance to be intrafamilial to be exempt from the Roster (and, inside CA, exempt from the FFL).

"1) Can the mom hand over all 4 pistols in her executor role and daughter file 1 OpLaw form?" doesn't work unless it's Mom handing over the pistols as Mom-the-owner. Uncle-niece inheritance isn't intrafamilial so has to go through the FFL, as (2).

Similarly, it sure looks like Mom-the-executor needs to transfer any guns that should go to Mom-the-owner through an FFL - brother-sister is also not 'intrafamilial'.

mea culpa.

Let's hope the lawyer your customers talk to is already on his/her second cup of coffee.

[ugimports]

Let's hope the lawyer your customers talk to is already on his/her second cup of coffee.

Ultimately that's the advice I told her to follow because of the trickiness of inheritance stuff.

[Chewy65]

Just how complex it may be will depend on several things, such as the size of the decedent's estate and if real property is involved, but even if it qualifies as a small estate any distribution likely requires approval in probate. This is not a legal opinion and the little I know of the subject is ancient. From the little I gather, I wouldn't do the transfer without a certified copy of an order from the court approving the will, the appointment of the mother as executor, and spelling out the mother's authority to distribute/dispose of assets of the estate. Although the will may seem clear, it may be challenged down the line and for some reason the bequest of the guns is denied.