Familial Transfer Question

[fishkiller]

My girlfriend and I are looking to get our CCW's in the next few months. My mother, an Oregon resident, offered to give me a couple of her pistols so that I don't have to spend a bunch of money investing in a new firearm (I'm a broke grad student and prior military). The handguns are the Taurus TCP in 380 and Taurus PT22 in 22lr, both of which are not "on roster" guns. I spoke to two of my local gun shop employees today, and they said my mom could just hand them to me, and I would not be breaking any laws, since she is my mother. I figured I would ask you guys here first though, as people here seem to be very knowledgeable.

I have two questions:

1) I am going to visit my mom next month. It's about a 3 hour drive, not too far. Am I legally allowed to pick up the pistols from her and drive them back to CA, as long as I register them in CA as soon as possible?

2) Am I legally allowed to gift one of them to my girlfriend after getting them registered in CA?


Thanks in advance for your replies. I have read many posts about the screwy CA laws, and want to be sure I am not breaking any before I proceed.

[P5Ret]

They should have told you that you aren't breaking any Ca laws. Federal law is a different story however. You would be making yourself and your mother felon's by transferring a firearm across state lines without using a FFL in the receiver's state of residence.

So to answer your questions 1) No. 2) Yes provided she can possess it and has all required documents (FSC or HSC).

[fishkiller]

Thank you for a quick reply P5Ret.

I just want to be clear here, even though it is an "intrafamilial transfer," if my mother or I cross the Oregon/California border with the firearms in our possession, by doing so we are breaking federal law?

Or, would if be legal for my mother to drop the guns off at a CA FFL for me to pick up. She only lives an hour or so away from the state line. Or do the guns need to be shipped to the FFL via Fedex, UPS, etc.?

The guys at 2 separate gun stores today told me that I would be good to go. Apparently they don't know their laws. So glad I asked here!

[P5Ret]

My understanding is that she and you could go to the same FFL, and do the transfer or she could ship it to a dealer who understands the process. Keep in mind that the dealer can and will charge a transfer fee that is not regulated, meaning whatever he wants to charge. As far as her dropping off for you to pick up, I don't think that will fly. I'm sure someone who is smarter than I on it will chime in on that question.

[Oceanbob]

The legal and least expensive way.

Mom pays an FFL in Oregon to ship the guns to your FFL in California. Inside with the guns is a Gift Letter to you only.

"I want my son George xxxxx to have these two handguns, Taurus zzz serial number xxxxx and Taurus XXXX serial number Xxxxx as a Gift from me. His Mother.

Copy of drivers license here...

Signed, mom
Datexxxx

Your FFL can only transfer one in 30 to you. So you will wait 2 months for both guns to get released. Your girlfriend doesn't count as a vertical relative.

When the guns arrive, you show up and DROS the first gun. Wait 10 days and take it home. The dealer enters the Exempt Code in the DROS software.
Probably DROS "her future gun first" save time.....EDIT

After 30 days, do the other gun. Then PPT the girlfriends gun, from you to her. Another 10 day wait.... unless you do hers first as I mention above^^

Be aware that some agencies won't do a .22 pistol on a carry permit. Be sure and check.

The reason it's cheaper to use an FFL for shipping ($20 buck up) is they can use the USPS. You can't. You pay over $100 bucks for Fed ex or UPS overnight.

Expect to pay a transfer fee to your FFL perhaps $65 to whatever. Always ask upfront and get a discount for 2 guns.

Good luck

[fishkiller]

Thank you both for the replies. It's a shame that us law abiding citizens (even prior military!) have to jump through so many hoops to acquire something that should be guaranteed to us under the second amendment.

I knew I could find the right answers here. Thanks again.

[P5Ret]

The legal and least expensive way.

Mom pays an FFL in Oregon to ship the guns to your FFL in California. Inside with the guns is a Gift Letter to you only.

"I want my son George xxxxx to have these two handguns, Taurus zzz serial number xxxxx and Taurus XXXX serial number Xxxxx as a Gift from me. His Mother.

Copy of drivers license here...

Signed, mom
Datexxxx

Your FFL can only transfer one in 30 to you. So you will wait 2 months for both guns to get released. Your girlfriend doesn't count as a vertical relative.

When the guns arrive, you show up and DROS the first gun. Wait 10 days and take it home. The dealer enters the Exempt Code in the DROS software.
Probably DROS "her future gun first" save time.....EDIT

After 30 days, do the other gun. Then PPT the girlfriends gun, from you to her. Another 10 day wait.... unless you do hers first as I mention above^^

Be aware that some agencies won't do a .22 pistol on a carry permit. Be sure and check.

The reason it's cheaper to use an FFL for shipping ($20 buck up) is they can use the USPS. You can't. You pay over $100 bucks for Fed ex or UPS overnight.

Expect to pay a transfer fee to your FFL perhaps $65 to whatever. Always ask upfront and get a discount for 2 guns.

Good luck

Would 1 in 30 apply to a gift? Learn something new everyday I'd have figured it would be similar to a ppt and exempt from that. OH wait I forgot it's not supposed to make sense or be logical.

[Oceanbob]

Would 1 in 30 apply to a gift? Learn something new everyday I'd have figured it would be similar to a ppt and exempt from that. OH wait I forgot it's not supposed to make sense or be logical.

Yeah it's crazy. My daughter from Oklahoma sent my two NIB Glocks as a gift. (Great daughter huh?)

Gen 4 Glock 19 and Gen 4 Glock 21

I had to wait 30 days....for the second gun....still gifts have no sales tax...

[Oceanbob]

We feel the frustration my friend.....

Be well and thanks for your service.

Thank you both for the replies. It's a shame that us law abiding citizens (even prior military!) have to jump through so many hoops to acquire something that should be guaranteed to us under the second amendment.

I knew I could find the right answers here. Thanks again.

[P5Ret]

Thanks, I wish I could get my daughter to do that for me, and she can buy blue label too, ah other priorities with kids and school and all.

[Librarian]

The sticky at the top of this forum - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503873 - covers the legalities.

Interstate transfer requires the FFL in the state of residence of the receiver.

[fiddletown]

...My mother, an Oregon resident, offered to give me a couple of her pistols ...

I have two questions:

1) I am going to visit my mom next month. It's about a 3 hour drive, not too far. Am I legally allowed to pick up the pistols from her and drive them back to CA, as long as I register them in CA as soon as possible?

.....

Maybe this is a good time to once again lay out the whole federal law story on interstate firearms transfer (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency):

1. Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).
   
   
2. In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.
   
   
3. In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.C] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.
   
   
4. There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.
   
   
5. The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).
   
   
6. Here's what the statutes say:

   18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts
   
   
   ...
   
   (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph
   

   (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,
   
   (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and
   
   (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

   
   ...
   
   (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
   

   (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
   
   (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

   
   ....
   
   (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
   ...
   
   (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph
   

   (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and
   
   (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

   
   ...

[Gryff]

My understanding is that she and you could go to the same FFL, and do the transfer or she could ship it to a dealer who understands the process. Keep in mind that the dealer can and will charge a transfer fee that is not regulated, meaning whatever he wants to charge. As far as her dropping off for you to pick up, I don't think that will fly.

This is it. You want to do an interstate intra-familial transfer. This is roster exempt, but it does require the use of a California FFL. Your mom can either meet you at the FFL or mail the gun to them. She needs to include a letter stating that she is your mom and is giving them to you as a gift.

Make sure your receiving FFL is familiar with this kind of transfer. They aren't super complex, but they are uncommon enough that a lot of FFLs don't know the process.

[fiddletown]

...or mail the gun to them. ...

A non-FFL may not ship a handgun using USPS (the U. S. Mail). It would need to be shipped by FedEx or UPS.

[Gryff]

A non-FFL may not ship a handgun using USPS (the U. S. Mail). It would need to be shipped by FedEx or UPS.

Sorry. Used "mail" as a colloquialism. Handguns must be shipped via common carrier by non-FFLs, of which the USPS is not one.