Colt AR15A4 ok in CA?

[JohnnyBravo]

Hi. I used to own a mid 80s Colt AR15A2 Sporter. Sold it, and have regretted it ever since. I'm interested in replacing it w/ something extremely close to what I had. Colt's AR15A4 looks like a current model on Colt's website, but it is not CA Compliant. While working yesterday, I asked a local FFL and he told me that's not a problem; that they can install a bullet-button on it before selling it to me and it'd would be legal. I know I can buy a Colt LE6920CA, but I'm not crazy about the adjustable stock, 16" barrel, and having to buy an add the carry handle. Any thoughts out there?

[Quiet]

How is the receiver marked/engraved?

The Colt LE6920CA that are sold in CA are engraved "M-4 Carbine", which makes them off-list.

[HibikiR]

The website appears to show it now marked "M4 CARBINE"

But previously it had "AR-15A4" and chances are that's the mark on the majority of models out there.

[faris1984]

How is the receiver marked/engraved?

The Colt LE6920CA that are sold in CA are engraved "M-4 Carbine", which makes them off-list.

Mine is LE6920 but M4 engraved.

[JohnnyBravo]

I don't know the exact engraving on the side. I just saw that the AR15A4 is a current model on Colt's website. I reluctantly called both the DOJ and ATF here in Sacramento while I was awaiting your replies. After talking w/ 4 different folks, I was told the "AR15A4" is not on the "Banned" list. And that if either Colt or the local FFL puts the bullet button on it, I'd be in full compliance...

[HibikiR]

I wonder how that will affect the Galil ACE (if/when it comes out) since the only difference between yours and the banned was the "A4".

[Quiet]

After talking w/ 4 different folks, I was told the "AR15A4" is not on the "Banned" list. And that if either Colt or the local FFL puts the bullet button on it, I'd be in full compliance...

Make/Model banned:
(make) Colt (model) AR-15{all} [PC 30510(a)(5) & 11 CCR 5495(a)]
(make) Colt (model) Law Enforcement [11 CCR 5499(a)]
(make) Colt (model) Match Target {all} [11 CCR 5499(a)]
(make) Colt (model) Sporter {all} [11 CCR 5499(a)]

If it is engraved "Colt" and "AR-15xx", then it will be considered make/model banned and nothing can be done to make it CA legal.

[Quiet]

I wonder how that will affect the Galil ACE (if/when it comes out) since the only difference between yours and the banned was the "A4".

More differences than that.

The Galil ACE is made by IWI, not IMI.
This is similar to the AUG-A3 being off-list. It's made by Steyr Arms, not Steyr-Mannlicher.


Make/Model banned:
(make) IMI (model) Galil [PC 30510(a)(2) & 11 CCR 5495(a)]
(make) Steyr-Mannlicher (model) AUG SA [PC 30510(a)(15)]


"off-list":
(make) IWI (model) Galil ACE SAR
(make) Steyr Arms (model) AUG-A3 SA

[CrazyPhuD]

Make/Model banned:
(make) Colt (model) AR-15{all} [PC 30510(a)(5) & 11 CCR 5495(a)]
(make) Colt (model) Law Enforcement [11 CCR 5499(a)]
(make) Colt (model) Match Target {all} [11 CCR 5499(a)]
(make) Colt (model) Sporter {all} [11 CCR 5499(a)]

If it is engraved "Colt" and "AR-15xx", then it will be considered make/model banned and nothing can be done to make it CA legal.

Actually it might not be as simple as that.

NOTE what I'm going to point on should not be considered justification to do anything, do NOT act on this without competent legal counsel.

What is an interesting argument is the AR-15(all) definition. One could assume that is to mean all variations under the AR-15. Except is the AR-15A4 under the same model line as the AR-15?

Legally it may not be. How can that be if the AR-15A2 is under the AR-15 model line? Look at an AR-15A2 receiver.....it doesn't say AR-15A2.....it says AR15 A2. The space is actually a significant distinction.... With the space you can pretty easily say that the A2 is a AR-15 model, with a different variation.

The AR-15A4 is different. I would state the AR-15A4 is actually a legally different model from AR-15 and Colt has actually treated the branding as such. The key difference is that Colt has removed the space after the AR-15 and instead created a new compounded model.

Colt actually has a separate trademark for the 'AR-15A4' you can look it up in the USPTO.

Word Mark AR-15A4
Goods and Services IC 013. US 002 009. G & S: Rifles and parts thereof. FIRST USE: 20091106. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20091106
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Trademark Search Facility Classification Code LETS-1 A A single letter, multiples of a single letter or in combination with a design
LETS-2 AR Two letters or combinations of multiples of two letters
NOTATION-SYMBOLS Notation Symbols such as Non-Latin characters,punctuation and mathematical signs,zodiac signs,prescription marks
NUM-15 The number 15 or the word Fifteen
NUM-4 The number 4 or the word Four
Serial Number 77928418
Filing Date February 4, 2010
Current Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition August 10, 2010
Registration Number 3866762
Registration Date October 26, 2010
Owner (REGISTRANT) COLT DEFENSE LLC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY DELAWARE 547 NEW PARK AVENUE WEST HARTFORD CT CONNECTICUT 06110
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record Joseph Dieso
Prior Registrations 0825581;0827453
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

Colt actually has seperate trademarks for both the 'Colt AR-15'

Word Mark COLT AR-15
Goods and Services IC 013. US 009. G & S: RIFLES. FIRST USE: 19620630. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19620630
Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
Design Search Code 01.07.02 - Globes with meridians and parallels only
03.05.01 - Horses
26.01.01 - Circles as carriers or as single line borders
Serial Number 72261009
Filing Date December 19, 1966
Current Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Registration Number 0830862
Registration Date June 27, 1967
Owner (REGISTRANT) COLT'S INC. CORPORATION ARIZONA 150 HUYSHOPE AVE. HARTFORD CONNECTICUT
(LAST LISTED OWNER) NEW COLT HOLDING CORPORATION CORPORATION DELAWARE 545 NEW PARK AVENUE WEST HARTFORD CONNECTICUT 061101332

Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record GEZA C. ZIEGLER JR.
Prior Registrations 0052903;0738097;AND OTHERS
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECTION 8(10-YR) 20071108.
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20071108
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

And the 'AR-15' mark

Word Mark AR-15
Goods and Services IC 013. US 009. G & S: RIFLES. FIRST USE: 19640511. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19640511
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 72253092
Filing Date August 25, 1966
Current Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Registration Number 0825581
Registration Date March 14, 1967
Owner (REGISTRANT) COLT'S INC. CORPORATION ARIZONA 150 HUYSHOPE AVE. HARTFORD CONNECTICUT
(LAST LISTED OWNER) COLT DEFENSE LLC. LIMITED PARTNERSHIP 547 NEW PARK AVENUE HARTFORD CONNECTICUT 061101332

Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record GEZA C. ZIEGLER JR.
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECTION 8(10-YR) 20101110.
Renewal 2ND RENEWAL 20101110
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

Colt does not appear to have an AR-15A2 or an AR-15 A2 mark registered. It likely considers them part of the AR-15 model line.

Colt(and the patent and trademark office) considers the AR-15A4 to be a distinctive model/mark/brand from the regular AR-15. They make this clear distinction by making it AR-15A4 all one word without spaces.

Before all AR-15 series guns had a space after AR-15. In all it's branding for prior AR-15 firearms it's always AR-15 SPACE 'model designation'.

For the AR-15A4 the entire word is the model designation, there is no space before the A4. According to the USPTO AR-15A4 is legally a different trademark than AR-15 and it stands to reason that also makes AR-15A4 a legally different model.

Colt chose explicitly to not make the A4 a separate designation under AR-15 instead they chose to clearly separate it as a separate model, brand and trademark from any prior AR-15 model lines

Because AR-15A4 is a separate brand/trademark you can make the argument that it's not an AR-15 anything....If colt wished it to be part of the AR-15 model line it would have been AR-15 A4. It's not, it's AR-15A4 and the USPTO considers that distinctive enough to grant a seperate trademark.

[JohnnyBravo]

The last person I spoke to, at the Sacramento ATF office, did tell me that the wording of "ALL" was too vague and lazy. And that the judge said ALL won't work; that specific models would have to be named... Hmm

[Quiet]

The last person I spoke to, at the Sacramento ATF office, did tell me that the wording of "ALL" was too vague and lazy. And that the judge said ALL won't work; that specific models would have to be named... Hmm

FYI.
The opinion of the BATFE has no sway on the enforcement of State laws.

Which is why things that are legal under Federal laws can be found illegal under State laws and vice versa.