A raw question

[AGGRO]

Ok, I think I've got the first question I had answered. If someone has a raw AR but it's not by name it can be de-listed (after a BB install) with a call to DOJ and it can never be made raw again. It can then be sold as a typical rifle. Or, sell the raw to LE or an FFL.

Now, if it's a .50 cal rifle to be sold out of State? I don't see any form on the DOJ site for selling to a private party, say in AZ or NV. Would that still have to go through an FFL? I'm trying to figure out how one gets the weapon out of their name in the DOJ DB after it's sold.

Or is the one check box on the form where you can write in the person's name, address and phone all there is to it? So confusing.

[Librarian]

Really, there is no known administrative mechanism to remove a weapon or a person from the database. (It can be done, of course, but with storage so cheap, probably is not done without some Real Important Reason.)

I don't know exactly how it is implemented, but probably in several 'tables' or lists, such as

Owners
ID ---- name, etc
123 -- owner 1
246 -- owner 2

and
Guns
ID---- desc --- owner
456 - gun 1 -- 123

So, if you own gun 1 and are owner 1, and sell it to owner 2, the line for gun 1 changes from
456 - gun 1 -- 123
to
456 - gun 1 -- 246

(Real databases are more detailed, and include such niceties as history records.)

[AGGRO]

Really, there is no known administrative mechanism to remove a weapon or a person from the database. (It can be done, of course, but with storage so cheap, probably is not done without some Real Important Reason.)

I don't know exactly how it is implemented, but probably in several 'tables' or lists, such as

Owners
ID ---- name, etc
123 -- owner 1
246 -- owner 2

and
Guns
ID---- desc --- owner
456 - gun 1 -- 123

So, if you own gun 1 and are owner 1, and sell it to owner 2, the line for gun 1 changes from
456 - gun 1 -- 123
to
456 - gun 1 -- 246

(Real databases are more detailed, and include such niceties as history records.)

Gotcha, I'm not really worried about a name in the DB, I'd be concerned about being the most current owner in the DB if I wasn't and that person lives in a free State.

[CSACANNONEER]

In CA, if a firearm has ever been "registered" to you, the state will and does keep that information in perpetuity. So, your name will ALWAYS be in the DB. As far as getting an OLL RAW out of RAW status, I know there is a way. As far as selling any firearm out of state (like in AZ or NV), Federal law mandates that a transfer between residents of different states goes through a FFL in the receiving party's state of residence.

[Jester3]

Great explanation Librarian, your info. stays there, it just goes further back as firearm changes hands. That's why you're "THE LIRARIAN"
Stay thirsty my friends.

[ke6guj]

Ok, I think I've got the first question I had answered. If someone has a raw AR but it's not by name it can be de-listed (after a BB install) with a call to DOJ and it can never be made raw again. It can then be sold as a typical rifle. Or, sell the raw to LE or an FFL.

Now, if it's a .50 cal rifle to be sold out of State? I don't see any form on the DOJ site for selling to a private party, say in AZ or NV. Would that still have to go through an FFL? I'm trying to figure out how one gets the weapon out of their name in the DOJ DB after it's sold.

Or is the one check box on the form where you can write in the person's name, address and phone all there is to it? So confusing.

you would take that .50BMG rifle to an FFL in the buyer's state and have them transfer it to the buyer.

you'd then file out an NLIP, http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag...46NLIP0209.pdf , and list that you transfered the .50BMG rifle to that FFL.

[dwtt]

This topic comes up periodically and I still can't seem to see what the infatuation with sending in the no longer in possession form comes from. There is no benefit from telling CA DOJ you sold your gun to someone in another state and giving the new owner's information to DOJ. No benefit to you or to the new owner. Why do people want to do this? If you sell your gun to an out of state buyer, just take the cash and put it in the bank, and leave it at that.

[Quiet]

This topic comes up periodically and I still can't seem to see what the infatuation with sending in the no longer in possession form comes from. There is no benefit from telling CA DOJ you sold your gun to someone in another state and giving the new owner's information to DOJ. No benefit to you or to the new owner. Why do people want to do this? If you sell your gun to an out of state buyer, just take the cash and put it in the bank, and leave it at that.

The majority of the people who do this are under the belief that sending in the NLIP will remove their name/firearm from AFS.

It doesn't, but they assume it does.

[CSACANNONEER]

The majority of the people who do this are under the belief that sending in the NLIP will remove their name/firearm from AFS.

It doesn't, but they assume it does.

Yup, that's why I posted this:

In CA, if a firearm has ever been "registered" to you, the state will and does keep that information in perpetuity. So, your name will ALWAYS be in the DB. As far as getting an OLL RAW out of RAW status, I know there is a way. As far as selling any firearm out of state (like in AZ or NV), Federal law mandates that a transfer between residents of different states goes through a FFL in the receiving party's state of residence.

[ke6guj]

This topic comes up periodically and I still can't seem to see what the infatuation with sending in the no longer in possession form comes from. There is no benefit from telling CA DOJ you sold your gun to someone in another state and giving the new owner's information to DOJ. No benefit to you or to the new owner. Why do people want to do this? If you sell your gun to an out of state buyer, just take the cash and put it in the bank, and leave it at that.

true, but if I did sell that RAW to a dealer or private party in NV, I'd want to document that it was no longer in my possesion, and here is the dealer that I transfered it to. then, if for some reason, that AW made it back into CA and came under LE inspection and they ran the numbers, it may come up as haven been registered to me in the past, but that I claimed NLIP. if they were to then try to claim I illegally transfered it to the person who was in possession, I could point to the NLIP form I filed and direct them to the NV dealer who I disposed the firearm to.

The majority of the people who do this are under the belief that sending in the NLIP will remove their name/firearm from AFS.

It doesn't, but they assume it does.

right, it won't remove that firearm from my AFS records, but it will at least show that I claimed NLIP.

[Metal God]

This topic comes up periodically and I still can't seem to see what the infatuation with sending in the no longer in possession form comes from. There is no benefit from telling CA DOJ you sold your gun to someone in another state and giving the new owner's information to DOJ. No benefit to you or to the new owner. Why do people want to do this? If you sell your gun to an out of state buyer, just take the cash and put it in the bank, and leave it at that.

Correct answer to that is

true, but if I did sell that RAW to a dealer or private party in NV, I'd want to document that it was no longer in my possesion, and here is the dealer that I transfered it to. then, if for some reason, that AW made it back into CA and came under LE inspection and they ran the numbers, it may come up as haven been registered to me in the past, but that I claimed NLIP. if they were to then try to claim I illegally transfered it to the person who was in possession, I could point to the NLIP form I filed and direct them to the NV dealer who I disposed the firearm to.

and or If that firearm you never told the CA DOJ you no longer own or are in possession of is used in a crime back here in CA . They look up the last known owner of said firearm that was just used to kill someone and low and be hold . Guess who's door they come charging through with extreme prejudices . That's right yours ,where they throw your family into turmoil and then confiscate all your firearms and hall you to jail . Now you are there explaining how you don't own the firearm anymore . They think "SURE" you don't , because suspected murders always tell us the truth when being interrogated . All because you did not have the time to fill out a piece of paper

This line of action could go on and on . Good luck getting your guns back . Lets say all gets worked out . I'm sure all that ended up costing you a good amount of cash . You will not likely see any of it recouped because the paper work that could have avoided that whole mess was not filled out by you .

I see it as just the opposite . There is no good reason NOT to fill out the paper work . Filling out the paper work MAY not stop the action above but refusing to fill it out will almost surely cause a response not to favorable to you .