AR pistol questions. What is legal, what is fact, what is not?

[CaveMike]

I want to build an AR pistol. I do not want to unknowingly become a criminal. I think I may have missed the boat on legally being able to purchase a dedicated ar pistol lower from a dealer. I have a lot of questions, so I guess I will just ask them all in order.

-Is is possible or legal to purchase a dedicated AR pistol lower from a dealer in CA?
-Is it still legal to buy an AR pistol lower or complete AR in a PPT situation?
-Is it illegal to purchase an AR pistol upper if you do not own an AR pistol lower?
-Is it legally possible to build an AR pistol on an 80% lower?
-Does an AR pistol built on an 80% lower have to be single shot or bolt action?
-Is a bullet button necessary on an AR pistol?
-What are my limitations on muzzle attachments for an AR pistol? Comp yes, flash hider no?

Please help me out guys.
Thanks

[Untamed1972]

Under CA law, with the roster in place.....there is no such thing as an "AR pistol lower".

Your choices are buy a complete one from a dealer, all though not sure how that's affected now by the lack of SSE.

Buy a complete one from a private party.

Or build one from an 80% lower.

[mej16489]

I want to build an AR pistol. I do not want to unknowingly become a criminal. I think I may have missed the boat on legally being able to purchase a dedicated ar pistol lower from a dealer. I have a lot of questions, so I guess I will just ask them all in order.

-Is is possible or legal to purchase a dedicated AR pistol lower from a dealer in CA?

Generally no, its not possible to DROS a lower receiver as a 'handgun' unless you are exempt from both the roster and the safe handling demo.

-Is it still legal to buy an AR pistol lower or complete AR in a PPT situation?

Yes

-Is it illegal to purchase an AR pistol upper if you do not own an AR pistol lower?

Its only legal if you don't own a rifle to which the upper might mate. There are constructive possession laws for SBRs.

-Is it legally possible to build an AR pistol on an 80% lower?

Yes - there is a specific sequence of steps involve todo it legally. i.e. it must be built as a dimensionally compliant bolt-action or breaktop single shot pistol.

-Is a bullet button necessary on an AR pistol?

yes, unless your intention is to make an illegal 'assault pistol' due to magazine outside the pistol grip (among other possible issues)

-What are my limitations on muzzle attachments for an AR pistol? Comp yes, flash hider no?

It generally doesn't matter as long as its not a CA defined assault pistol

[stix213]

mej16489 nailed it

Most common way people build AR pistols is from an 80%. I think there are some companies using SSE2.0 to sell complete pistols now though.

[Stanze]

Does anyone know if there were ever any AR pistols on the roster before LCI and Microstamping became a requirement?

[stix213]

Does anyone know if there were ever any AR pistols on the roster before LCI and Microstamping became a requirement?

None

[GabeCA]

It is possible to buy a lower through PPT that was registered as a handgun with the CADOJ, either from new CA residents or LEOs.

[Norsemen308]

It is possible to buy a lower through PPT that was registered as a handgun with the CADOJ, either from new CA residents or LEOs.

Yes but get ready to shell out$$$$$$$

[GabeCA]

Yes but get ready to shell out$$$$$$$

What is the "cheap" alternative? Moving to a free state? Finishing an 80% lower also takes time and money.

[Jimi Jah]

I see plenty for sale in the gun shops. 80% are easy if you use a router. There are many ways to obtain one, but making your own is the most satisfaction.

[Staticsouls]

The trick for building off an 80% is the sequence and configuration. Break top is easy enough if you start with a buffer plug instead of a tube assmbly, or straight pull/bolt action if you don't install a gas tube so I hear.

[Germz]

-Is is possible or legal to purchase a dedicated AR pistol lower from a dealer in CA?
Yes, it is possible for some people!

-Is it still legal to buy an AR pistol lower or complete AR in a PPT situation?
Yes, it is still legal to buy a striped pistol receiver if you are exempt from the roster and safe handling demo

-Is it illegal to purchase an AR pistol upper if you do not own an AR pistol lower?
Yes, it is completely legal as long as you do not have possession (even if it's 3000 miles away on the other coast) of a rifle that the upper could fit on.

-Is it legally possible to build an AR pistol on an 80% lower?
Yes, if done correctly.

-Does an AR pistol built on an 80% lower have to be single shot or bolt action?
Even if it is a bolt action, it will still have to be built as a single shot to be exempt from the roster. There is not an "either bolt action or single shot" exemption. There is only a single shot exemption or a single action exemption. Of course, if you are roster exempt, no need to build it in a way that is exempt from the roster.

-Is a bullet button necessary on an AR pistol?
No. You can make it a non detachable magazine any way you want to as long as it follows the law. Of course, there is zero reason to use any mag lock if you are not making it into a semi auto.

-What are my limitations on muzzle attachments for an AR pistol? Comp yes, flash hider no?
If it is a semi auto with a fixed mag or any non semi auto, any muzzle devise that you can legally own in CA can legally be used. Yes, there are a select few in CA who can legally own suppressors.

[RickD427]

What is the "cheap" alternative? Moving to a free state? Finishing an 80% lower also takes time and money.

Gabe,

The PPT avenue is the way to go if you want to stay completely safe. You have to accept the fact that current owners understand the law of supply and demand and are likely to price their product accordingly.

It is still lawful to build your own from an 80% but you're going to have to deal with two problems:

1) Zip Guns - California's Zip Gun statute is horrendously unclear, primarily for the way it incorporates the federal excise tax into the definition of a Zip Gun. The most conservative reading of that mess would require you to build your 80% weapon to the pattern of a weapon made by a licensed manufacturer. We really don't know how closely it must match (Does it just have to function like the pattern weapon, or will be like the roster where a difference in engraving will make it different?).

2) Unsafe Handgun - If you build your 80% into a semi-auto, then you have to comply with the Safe Handgun law. You'll need to fit your weapon with a Loaded Chamber Indicator, a Magazine Disconnect, and provide for microstamping. Then you need to send your build off to a DOJ certified lab. Most folks suggest building your weapon as a "Single Shot" to avoid those requirements. That is easily done, especially with the AR platform. The problem is no one is really content with a single shot AR. There's gonna be the temptation to make it semi-auto. A lot of folks suggest that "converting" your single shot into a semi-auto is different from "manufacturing" the semi-auto and they usually point to the prior practice of FFLs doing essentially the same with the "SSE exemption." That may even be a good argument, but there is no case law requiring a court to accept that argument. A prosecutor is free to argue that you were manufacturing all the while to the point of having a semi-auto (They couldn't make the same argument for the FFL SSE exemption because a commercial outfit "manufactured" the firearm). If the court buys that argument, you're convicted, even if you went through the single shot steps.

[CSACANNONEER]

Under CA law, with the roster in place.....there is no such thing as an "AR pistol lower".

Your choices are buy a complete one from a dealer, all though not sure how that's affected now by the lack of SSE.

Buy a complete one from a private party.

Or build one from an 80% lower.

LOL. Not everyone in CA is subject to the roster. So, yes, there are legal "AR pistol lowers" in CA. Don't talk in absolutes unless you are positive.

-Is is possible or legal to purchase a dedicated AR pistol lower from a dealer in CA?
No

Yes, it is possible for some people!

-Is it still legal to buy an AR pistol lower or complete AR in a PPT situation?
No and yes

Yes, it is still legal to buy a striped pistol receiver if you are exempt from the roster and safe handling demo

-Is it illegal to purchase an AR pistol upper if you do not own an AR pistol lower?
No. but you run the risk of being wrapped up for constructive possession IF CAUGHT.
Yes, it is completely legal as long as you do not have possession (even if it's 3000 miles away on the other coast) of a rifle that the upper could fit on.
-Is it legally possible to build an AR pistol on an 80% lower?
Yes
Yes, if done correctly.
-Does an AR pistol built on an 80% lower have to be single shot or bolt action?
bolt action or break top. But the receiver is what is considered the firearm (and in this case pistol). you can't build an unsafe handgun, but I have yet to be shown how an AR receiver can be bolt action/breaktop if those parts don't exist on a lower receiver; the law is contradictory. so really, the better question is who's watching you build the damn thing?

Even if it is a bolt action, it will still have to be built as a single shot to be exempt from the roster. There is not an "either bolt action or single shot" exemption. There is only a single shot exemption or a single action exemption. Of course, if you are roster exempt, no need to build it in a way that is exempt from the roster.

-Is a bullet button necessary on an AR pistol?
Yes

No. You can make it a non detachable magazine any way you want to as long as it follows the law. Of course, there is zero reason to use any mag lock if you are not making it into a semi auto.

-What are my limitations on muzzle attachments for an AR pistol? Comp yes, flash hider no?
Irrelevant. magazine lock overrides limitations; no sound suppressors.
If it is a semi auto with a fixed mag or any non semi auto, any muzzle devise that you can legally own in CA can legally be used. Yes, there are a select few in CA who can legally own suppressors.

[Quiet]

+1 on everything that CSACANNONER posted.