Private Party Transfer: Kali resident with Non-Kali resident?

[Matt C]

Well, it seems every dealer in the LA area has the policy, which some seem to think is law, that a long gun must be sent from an FFL in the NR's state.

[SemiAutoSam]

Well, it seems every dealer in the LA area has the policy, which some seem to think is law, that a long gun must be sent from an FFL in the NR's state.

Ask them if its federal or state law and, Ask them to show you the law.

and if their ******** about it let them know that they just lost your and your friends business.

If you feel the situation calls for this.

I know one FFL that will take a FIREARM in from an out of state individual that is if they are still in business.

[marklbucla]

It's them just looking out for each other.

[SemiAutoSam]

Yes that is true if its someone they do not know or trust they could be sent something that is considered contraband and they accept it they could be liable under state and federal law.

In fact this kind of thing has happened to NFA dealers that Ive personally known and they lost their license.

ATF is known to send something to a dealer and be there when UPS delivers a kind of sting setup.

[Librarian]

What seems to cause a lot of problems is the CADOJ.

If some transaction must go through DROS and to DOJ, as I understand it the only way is through the automated system.

The automated system is apparently set up to accept only CA ID. But, so far as I can tell, there seems to be nothing in the PPT law which requires that, it's just CADOJ's whim.

I could be wrong, of course.

[xenophobe]

I know one FFL that will take a FIREARM in from an out of state individual that is if they are still in business.

How does he fill out a Pawnbroker Report?

You need a state ID for that.

[Hunter]

Ok, let see if I got some of this clear or not.....I admit upfront that my knowledge of the PawnBroker Report is limited
and that is where I may need some clarifications from those of you doing this for a living.

So here goes my line of thought....

1.) It has been stated by Xenophobe that a FFL dealer can log in a firearm from anyone, including a NR.

2.) Due too the CA PawnBroker report, the FFL cannot "buy" the firearm from the same NR unless the NR has a CA ID. or is a FFL holder.
Doesn't matter if the NR is out of state or standing in front of the FFL, no can do.

3.) On the other hand, a FFL in CA can receive a firearm from a NR (out of state) for transfer to a CA resident. This is for the case where the buyer has already paid the seller in advance. Otherwords, since the FFL is only receiving and logging in the firearm to his books and not actually buying the firearm himself, no CA pawnbroker report is needed. Because of that, a NR ID is sufficient for the dealer's bound book. Basically gets back to point #1.

Yes /No ?

I say yes, since that is what is commonly done for transfers from a NR doing a transfer to a resident.
It is legal from both CA PC and Fed gun laws.

Anything you FFL holders here think otherwise?

So if I have all of this correct, then we get back to the orginal question of this thread.

Can a NR transfer/sell a long gun to a resident?

Answer should be yes, the FFL will log the firearm into the books as part of the transfer process to the buyer. Again no
pawnbroker report is needed, since the FFL is not purchasing, only transfering. Correct?? If not, why? And if not, how does point #3 get done?

If indeed correct, the FFL fees should be what the FFL dealer would normally charge for a transfer. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Matt C]

How does he fill out a Pawnbroker Report?

You need a state ID for that.

But does it have to be a CA state ID?

[xenophobe]

I give up.

I'm tired of repeating myself. I don't know how many different ways I have to say the same thing.

Hunter, some things just don't make sense. A C&R License holder can accept C&R handguns and long guns in the mail. A California C&R may not have handguns shipped to them at all. They cannot take delivery of a C&R long gun from a dealer without a COE. A California C&R may take delivery of a C&R long gun in the mail without a COE. A C&R holder may get a C&R handgun from a dealer without waiting or registration. A California C&R holder may not get a handgun and bypass the 10 day wait, and it also must be registered. OMG? How is all that possible?

I give up.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Hunter, you misunderstood me at the beginning. When I said only two residents can PPT, you were assuming PPT means face to face transfer. This is not correct. PPT means one thing and one thing only: private party transfer between two individuals at a FFL who hold the gun for 10 days and runs a DROS. You are thinking of a PPT in out of state terms like face to face.

I say yes, since that is what is commonly done for transfers from a NR doing a transfer to a resident.
It is legal from both CA PC and Fed gun laws.

Anything you FFL holders here think otherwise?

So if I have all of this correct, then we get back to the orginal question of this thread.

Can a NR transfer/sell a long gun to a resident?

Answer should be yes, the FFL will log the firearm into the books as part of the transfer process to the buyer. Again no
pawnbroker report is needed, since the FFL is not purchasing, only transfering. Correct?? If not, why? And if not, how does point #3 get done?

If indeed correct, the FFL fees should be what the FFL dealer would normally charge for a transfer. Nothing more, nothing less.

You are still not understanding what a PPT is. A PPT is between to residents of this state. PERIOD. Anything coming from out of state is not a PPT and is subject to whatever transfer fee a dealer wants to charge.

So can a NR transfer/sell a long gun to a resident? Yes, but it must go through a FFL in a non-PPT transaction and is subject to whatever fee the transfer dealer wants to set. My transfer fee is $25 plus $25 DROS. Some guys charge $75 and $25 for DROS. Either way, it is completely up to the dealer's descretion because IT IS NOT A PPT. Anything coming from out of state or another dealer is not a PPT. Period, end of discussion, those are the facts.

Xenophobe, if you just straight up buy a firearm from someone, do you have to fill out a pawnbroker log? So if I were to just buy a firearms straight up from a non-resident, I would simply log in their address into the A&R Bound Book. How does anyone know it came from in state directly or via a common carrier if the address is the same?

Unless you can show a specific law that states I can't accept the firearm directly from the person, I don't see what the difference is nor how anyone would know whether the guy brought it in himself or just sent it in.

[FCinCA]

Xenophobe...

Ok, here is a specific question. If a gun is not on the DOJ Drop list (not an assault weapon) and the gun is owned by a private party in another state can he ship that gun to an FFL in California and have it transfered as a PPT to the Cali resident?

FC

[Hunter]

Hunter, you misunderstood me at the beginning. When I said only two residents can PPT, you were assuming PPT means face to face transfer. This is not correct. PPT means one thing and one thing only: private party transfer between two individuals at a FFL who hold the gun for 10 days and runs a DROS. You are thinking of a PPT in out of state terms like face to face.

You are still not understanding what a PPT is. A PPT is between to residents of this state. PERIOD. Anything coming from out of state is not a PPT and is subject to whatever transfer fee a dealer wants to charge.

Yes, I was thinking FFT in your terms. I agree 100% with what you state above on the fees. In state FFT rate is set in stone for two residents (via PPT). Anything other is up to the dealer to work out.

So can a NR transfer/sell a long gun to a resident? Yes, but it must go through a FFL in a non-PPT transaction and is subject to whatever fee the transfer dealer wants to set. My transfer fee is $25 plus $25 DROS. Some guys charge $75 and $25 for DROS. Either way, it is completely up to the dealer's descretion because IT IS NOT A PPT. Anything coming from out of state or another dealer is not a PPT. Period, end of discussion, those are the facts.

Agree 100% again, as this is how I have been buying guns for years.

Xenophobe, if you just straight up buy a firearm from someone, do you have to fill out a pawnbroker log? So if I were to just buy a firearms straight up from a non-resident, I would simply log in their address into the A&R Bound Book. How does anyone know it came from in state directly or via a common carrier if the address is the same?

Unless you can show a specific law that states I can't accept the firearm directly from the person, I don't see what the difference is nor how anyone would know whether the guy brought it in himself or just sent it in.

This is exactly what I was trying to get to. That NR routinely ship firearms to FFL for transfer to a resident buyer. So a FFL can transfer from a NR to a resident. So again, we are on the same page here. But it was this thread about not be able to do that was what started this questioning.


Thanks 10%

[tenpercentfirearms]

Ok, here is a specific question. If a gun is not on the DOJ Drop list (not an assault weapon) and the gun is owned by a private party in another state can he ship that gun to an FFL in California and have it transfered as a PPT to the Cali resident?

NO! Come on guys, you are making this too hard. PPT can only occur between two CA residents. Let me make it easier to understand still. A PPT requires that both CA residents come into the gun shop and swipe their DLs and both must sign the DROS form: PERIOD! That is it. No deviations, no this or that. Two CA residents, both in the same shop at the same time, both swiping their DLs, and both signing the form. If the transaction does not involve two CA residents in the same shop at the same time, IT IS NOT A PPT and therefore it is not subject to the $10 fee ceiling. If it is not a PPT the individual dealer can charge as little or as much as they want as a "transfer fee".

[xenophobe]

California Department of Justice, Firearms Division
General Information (916) 263-4887 Fax: (916) 263-0676

[tenpercentfirearms]

Are suggesting that I call them and ask what they think about something? LOL. I might have done that back in November 2005, not anymore.