Lying to a LEO?

[mooster]

This brings to mind a similar question.
On TV shows, it is mentioned that an (undercover) cop MUST identify himself if asked. Is this so?

The Raisuli

[CCWFacts]

I haven't read this whole thread yet, but just responding to the subject line, "lying to a LEO", the answer is always DON'T DO IT.

Martha Stewart got a few months and a felony conviction for some very small misstatements. DON'T DO IT.

You can always say, "I'm not going to discuss with you until I have had advice from my attorney." You can always say, "Officer, there's nothing that you would be interested in in the vehicle." You can say, "I don't consent to search." You can say, "I don't understand, and I won't consent to anything or say anything until I've talked to my attorney." In fact, "I don't understand anything" is a safe and good thing to say in any situation where you're not sure what to do.

But lying to an LEO, even if it may be legal in some circumstances, is ALWAYS a mistake and will either add to any existing problems, or (even worse) create new problems when none existed before.

I don't know how this thread got to seven pages, because it's so obviously bad to lie to a LEO that it's beyond discussion.

Decline to answer questions: fine
Demand an attorney: fine
Lie: NO, don't do it

[CCWFacts]

This brings to mind a similar question.
On TV shows, it is mentioned that an (undercover) cop MUST identify himself if asked. Is this so?

THERE'S NO TRUTH TO THIS. It's an urban legend. And btw, cops ARE allowed to lie to people they are interviewing. And apparently lying is often used to get confessions or to get people to incriminate themselves or others. I don't know if it's "routine" or "something that happens occasionally" or whatever, but they're allowed to and they do sometimes. But the suspects they are interviewing are NOT allowed to lie. Is it fair? Whatever, it's reality, understand and accept.

[what2be]

In this case, the OP was given notice of a "Fish and Game Checkpoint" via a sign. Because he chose to drive through the checkpoint he gave implied consent to search. It is similar to a DUI checkpoint.

There are many rules to follow and many court cases to read through but if the DFG agents do it correctly, the mere fact that you drove up to the checkpoint could have given them reason to search.


The following is a motion to suppress testimony obtained by a DUI checkpoint in California. It lists many of the relevant cases and requirements set forth in order to make LEO checkpoints legal.

Small difference though, on DUI checkpoints, they HAVE to give you the option to take a alternate route.(a bit off topic, but interesting..one of my employees was dating a cop and went on a ride along. She hung out in the "alternate route" area and as soon as she saw someone take the detour she would follow them and when my employee asked how are you going to pull them over, she said "they always make some mistake and give me a reason". So much for a legal alternative..lol) In my case, it was a windy 2 lane road down a mountain. They were sitting in a turnout with orange cones out stopping traffic. There was no other way out, or around. (well, i guess if i wanted to backtrack 300 miles I could have gone to Yreka, then redding, then home, but thats not reasonable.

[KDOFisch]

I remember once going through one years ago near Manhattan Beach. Looked like they were pulling over every fifth car or so, but I didn't get stopped. Didn't see any alternate routes, but I think I remember seeing a guy in my rearview pulling out from the line and legally turning into a parking lot. A patrol car from the back of the line and stopped him. Don't know what they got him for (shopping at 7-11) because seconds later I was on the highway.

[tankerman]

Funny, because Fish and Wildife special agents ARE Federal LEO's. I don't think Fish and Game are, because they are state agents.

California Department of Fish and Game?

[Utha Schleigle]

I don't lie to LE. I pay professionals to do it - ATTORNIES. ATTORNIES are expensive - it is cheaper for me to tell the truth.

LE finds stolen pistol under my driver seat. LE "Is this your gun??" ME "No I it is my grand mother's" LE "I don't see you GRAND MOTHER in the car - How can I verify that stupid LIE" ME "If you want to talk to GRAND ma just open the trunk - she is still alive I hear her kicking in there."

LE "You are in a world of hurt - look ie here a meth pipe just fell out of your girlfriend's cigarette pack (VIGINIA SLIMMS box of coarse)" Me "thats her problem - I only pay for the drugs"

LE calls Fruit Inspector over. Fruit Inspector "You want to explain this basket of oranges from Florida in your trunk" Me " Not mine SARGENT FRIDAY - OJ gave them to me in VEGAS at the court house to take to his daughter in Belaire. I did not want take them, because they are covered in buggs." Fruit Inpsector " You are a dumb SOB why did you try to smuggle fruit into CA"
Me "OJ gave a $100.oo in conterfeit $$$$ so I could buy her druggs and some fresh daipers for GRAND ma - this has been a ruff trip MANN ever since I got out.

Come on guyz - search your own car before the LE's do. Plann for when you get pulled over - not if you get pulled over.

[retired]

No person shall give, either orally or in writing, information
to a peace officer while in the performance of his duties under the
provisions of this code when such person knows that the information
is false.

This is 31CVC and it is a misdemeanor. Just thought I'd give an example.

[fullrearview]

yes you can lie, but if caught doing something illegal, you will lose all credibility in court.

[DrunkSkunk]

That's why I ALWAYS tell the truth, even when I'm lying.

[Moonclip]

That's why I ALWAYS tell the truth, even when I'm lying.

Ok Scarface. I hate when a cop asks where are you going or where are you coming from, tempted to lie in that case.

[Utha Schleigle]

Thats what LE's are looking for!!!

Ok Scarface. I hate when a cop asks where are you going or where are you coming from, tempted to lie in that case.

LE's always ask that, because the LE wants to see if you are nervous or show signs of lieing or deception. If the signs are there then there is something or some behavior to hide.

If the answers don't make sence to what a "normal" person would do or the answer is confusing to anyone that is not drunk-high-scared then there is probably deception going on.

Actual incident. If you don't think they are real better for me!!! No names or dates to protect the guilty and reduce my attorny's yearly retainer fee.

Insident 1 Somewhere "bad" neiborhood LA

Police are called at 22:00hrs to gas station/convience store by employee, because younge white man has been beaten and is saying his radically cool motorctcle has been vandalized - then stolen. When police get there in 10 minutes (slow night - short response times), yes there is a bleeding - bruized - young white man ( in motor cycle attire) saying that his bike was stolen and he was attacked. The police asked the standard questions for the bike and got the word out to see if the bike was still in the area or being joying ridin up the allies - cement washes - rail roads. Then the LE at the Gas Station asked for more standard question From the "victum".

LE - Do you need any medical assistance?
YM - No - just find my bike.
LE - Desciption of bike???
YM - Details
LE - CALLED in description and then - Where were you coming from?
LE - To YM - you look preety beaten up - are you sure you didn;t need a doctor to look at you.
YM - (young man) No doctor. I was coming from work in Torrance.
LE - Where were you going to?
YM - Home in Long Beach.
LE - When you get off from work?
YM - 17:00hrs - why????!!!! are you asking me that - ARE YOU GUYZ trying to find my custom bike ????? I just paid $$$$$$$$ for it.

(anger - agutation at a routine question - YM shows signs of being nervious and trys to hide nerviouses with anger and adrylin)

LE - Yes the PD's are. We have cars out around the area looking right now. (lets calm the YM down) But since I am the Officer that is going to write the report there are standard question that will help you get your bike back.
LE - How long does it take you to drive home from Torrance to Long Beach??? (It's better to remind the YM were he worked and lives in case he forgets or thinks the LE would not write it down.)
YM - (shows signs of deception and looks away) - 50 minutes ( calms upps - physically ) (20 secounds before another outburst of anger)
LE - (before outburst - let's calm YM down) Forget that for now - I can get that lator. Tell me about the attack - how many - and how did it happen.

This information did not make sence either and the YM was searched.

Any way = I could go on butt the net result was that the YM was in an area he had no saine reason to be in - propbably to buy drugs. He was luckly that he was not seriously hurt. He still had his money. There was no reason to arrest him - but giving false information was not going to help get his bike back. We told YM to call a friend or a cabb and get home to safety and call his insurance co. If he was in the area again with out a good reason - he would be detained for questioning by the detective or better trained personell.

Lator the incident - where if the teenagers were pulled over and asked the standard where are you coming from and to. Two of them would still be alive.

[aileron]

Perhaps there is a reason for it. For the most part, cops stopped being the good guys a long time ago when they accepted the idea that they are little more then revenue generators and enforcers of unconstitutional laws.

This would be coming from the top brass, not the guy on the street doing the dirty work. If anything, he might experience an epiphany at some point, but you cant blame him for what they decide to do with the force. If anything maybe he will become one of those that fixes things later. Or champions the cause like Liberty1 and others on this board. Its not all bad.

Remember it is OUR responsibility to push back (through proper processes), and slowly put things back how they should be. And I think everyone benefits from it.

[Moonclip]

LE's always ask that, because the LE wants to see if you are nervous or show signs of lieing or deception. If the signs are there then there is something or some behavior to hide.

.

May be the reasoning behind it but I still feel it is none of their business.