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Stolen Property Investigation: DoD (IG/DCIS/NCIS) + US Atty looking into online sales

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  • bwiese
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Oct 2005
    • 27621

    Stolen Property Investigation: DoD (IG/DCIS/NCIS) + US Atty looking into online sales

    The DoD Inspector General (or at least his letterhead) is - along with DCIS, NCIS and US Atty's office in
    LA - investigating stolen military property.

    Various folks have been contacted by mail stating that investigatory leads from online purchases (Craigslist,
    EBay and Calguns) led to the contact of the addressed individual.

    [I do not know the details of the products/items in question - just stuff? ITAR-controlled stuff? actual firearms?
    Given lack of announcement of any ATF involvement, though, I suspect no actual guns/receivers or prohibited
    ammo involved.]

    The individual is told he "is not targeted by this investigation", and he is requested - in a somewhat firm tone
    designed to drive/promote "compliance" - to contact a special agent handling these matters.

    I do not want to tell anyone to not comply, hate people that steal from the gov't (though the gov't is the biggest
    thief around, in many respects) or remotely recommend anything that can be construed as hindering investigations,
    etc.... but it is fully legal for me to recommend seeking counsel before responding to this letter.

    ... SO ...

    ... I STRONGLY ADVISE YOU CONTACT AN ATTORNEY AND SEEK LEGAL ADVISE _BEFORE_ MAKING CONTACT.

    YOU SHOULD USE AN ATTORNEY AS AN INTERMEDIARY TO PROTECT *YOUR* RIGHTS, as most people are
    simply not prepared to confront the serried ranks of Fed investigators & attorneys who continually need to
    demonstrate 'work product'.

    Due to 18 USC 1001, anything you might not remember/recount properly in statements, depositions etc can inflate to
    "lying to a Federal officer", etc. You can easily end up with an accidental felony with an overzealous prosecutor who
    can't make his main case.

    IGNORE STATEMENTS THAT "You are not a target." You're not a target until you are, and make yourself one.

    Your attorney can set up things such that you have certain protections you'd not have, and "walk you around"
    risk elements if he decides to, with you, volunteer contact.

    If they come to your door without a warrant you do not have to let them in. You should only say, "I need to contact
    my attorney." Beware that they may put multiple people at your front and other doors and be very intimindating.

    REMEMBER IF THEY COULD GET A WARRANT THEY ALREADY WOULD HAVE DONE SO!

    DO NOT DENY GUILT/ASSERT INNOCENCE. IT CAN ONLY CAUSE PROBLEMS. ONLY SAY "I NEED TO TALK TO MY
    ATTORNEY."

    (IF SOME OTHER TRIVIAL VIOLATION WERE TO HAVE OCCURRED OVER A MATTER YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND,
    THIS THEN COULD BE USED AGAINST YOU AS A "MISSTATEMENT" OR "LYING TO A FEDERAL AGENT." AVOID THAT
    RATHOLE.

    Remember also that failing, flailing-about Federal cases often end up with desperate US Attorneys & investigators eager
    to "show work product" - so as the major case fails, they look to "accessory" items like perjury & other such matters to
    put "skins on the wall."

    [Slightly different, but remember Martha Stewart and Scooter Libby were convicted not of their primary charges but
    "misstatement" crap. If they had STFU'd and followed lawyer advice they might be nonfelons today.]


    REMEMBER THAT UPON RECEIPT OF THIS LETTER THE REST OF YOUR LIFE SHOULD BE SQUARED AWAY - no pot
    plants, IRS tax issues, illegally configured firearms (Fed OR California!), steroids (yes, that's been an issue
    in the past!) etc. Expect risk of any area of your life to be an issue and remember THAT FAMILY &
    ROOMATES
    CAN CAUSE ISSUES (including allowing searches against your will.)
    Last edited by bwiese; 08-09-2014, 2:07 PM.

    Bill Wiese
    San Jose, CA

    CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
    sigpic
    No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
    to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
    ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
    employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
    legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
  • #2
    krwada
    Senior Member
    CGN Contributor
    • Jun 2013
    • 1457

    As always Bill.

    Thank you very much for the heads up...

    ... now let the Calguns thing begin!

    Comment

    • #3
      NiteQwill
      Calguns Addict
      • Dec 2007
      • 6368

      Coming home from the 'box, there was an entire connex/milvan of non-receipt/unaccounted for/off-books Aimpoints, brand new, in box. Some Soldiers were "going at it."

      I simply walked away knowing it would only lead to trouble. Most military equipment is easily identifiable using NSN numbers, stock numbers, or packaging (ol' cardboard box).

      This was a very common thing overseas and here CONUS. I'm sure there are millions of pieces of equipment floating around off-books or written off as a "field loss."

      Bottom line: don't purchase or sell anything that you suspect to be military equipment, period.

      The fate of the wounded rest in the hands of the ones who apply the first dressing.

      Comment

      • #4
        StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca
        Veteran Member
        • Feb 2013
        • 2994

        Good advice.
        __________________________________________________ _____________




        sigpic

        Comment

        • #5
          rootuser
          Veteran Member
          • Dec 2012
          • 3018

          This all started when Mr. Weise called the DOJ about those bullet button tools.... NOW look where we are. Military heists, innocent Americans doomed to life in a Colorado Supermax next to Terry Nichols or Zacarias Moussaoui, what's next??????

          On a more serious note: Thanks for the good advise.

          Comment

          • #6
            wildhawker
            I need a LIFE!!
            • Nov 2008
            • 14150

            I can confirm that ATF and SOS have contacted me directly. Please strongly consider the warning.

            -BC
            Brandon Combs

            I do not read private messages, and my inbox is usually full. If you need to reach me, please email me instead.

            My comments are not the official position or a statement of any organization unless stated otherwise. My comments are not legal advice; if you want or need legal advice, hire a lawyer.

            Comment

            • #7
              OCArmory
              Senior Member
              • Jun 2008
              • 1321

              We have had a customer contacted by them. Do not be afraid if they come to your door to tell them you do not wish to talk without an attorney. They are using the ATF to trace transactions that might have had extra items on them like ACOG scopes and such. Remember your transactions on calguns are not private.

              Comment

              • #8
                chiselchst
                Very Nice Honey Badger
                CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                • Oct 2008
                • 2025

                Thanks much Bill. As always, great advice.

                Calguns is such a great resource for information, and your contributions are a fine example. Not sucking up, just saying...
                My Opinion - Worth What You Paid For It...

                DO NOT Use Amazon Smile! Use Shop42A.com
                Originally posted by FremontJames
                I guess it depends on what your definition of law breaking is.
                Originally posted by Librarian
                Here, let me Google that for you ... :)

                No, no, that would be cruel.

                Comment

                • #9
                  bwiese
                  I need a LIFE!!
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 27621

                  This thread shows you the value of various info sources.

                  The ATF participation info is new to me.

                  Bill Wiese
                  San Jose, CA

                  CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
                  sigpic
                  No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
                  to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
                  ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
                  employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
                  legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    IVC
                    I need a LIFE!!
                    • Jul 2010
                    • 17594

                    Originally posted by bwiese
                    [Slightly different, but remember Martha Stewart and Scooter Libby were convicted not of their primary charges but "misstatement" crap. If they had STFU'd and followed lawyer advice they might be nonfelons today.]
                    I would make this stronger and say: "they would be nonfelons today."

                    Pay special attention to Bill's statement that "you are not a target until you are." That's how our system works and understanding this simple truth should factor heavily into your decisions.
                    sigpicNRA Benefactor Member

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      The Gleam
                      I need a LIFE!!
                      • Feb 2011
                      • 11561

                      Now if only they would use these resources to track and find all those "items" that Eric Holder stole and sold to cartels down in Mexico. And then better yet, bring Mr. Holder to justice; hold him accountable to the same standards as they did Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North.

                      THAT would be a lovely use of their time.
                      -----------------------------------------------
                      Originally posted by Librarian
                      What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

                      If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        kaligaran
                        Veteran Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 4800

                        Originally posted by wildhawker
                        I can confirm that ATF and SOS have contacted me directly. Please strongly consider the warning.

                        -BC
                        Are you willing to say what kind of 'stuff' they contacted you about and where said stuff was acquired (ebay/craigslist/etc)?
                        WTB: multiautomatic ghost gun with a .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Must include shoulder thing that goes up.
                        Memberships/Affiliations: CERT, ARRL ARES, NRA Patron Member, HRC, CGN/CGSSA, Cal-FFL

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Gringo Bandito
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 1835

                          tagged

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            bwiese
                            I need a LIFE!!
                            • Oct 2005
                            • 27621

                            Originally posted by kaligaran
                            Are you willing to say what kind of 'stuff' they contacted you about and where said stuff was acquired (ebay/craigslist/etc)?
                            I'm not sure he'd know/they'd tell him. They might have confused his "Calguns Foundation" status with "Calguns.net" operations.

                            Bill Wiese
                            San Jose, CA

                            CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
                            sigpic
                            No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
                            to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
                            ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
                            employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
                            legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

                            Comment

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