Must Issue CCW, Why Not in CA?

[Boxer]

If 40 states have must issue CCW or close to that, why do we not have it here in CA? Is this something that can get put on a ballot or are we subject to our gun grabbing state legislators and senators to do the deed, which means it will never happen.

[nobs11]

I suspect that there are a lot of small battles to be fought and won and there is likely stuff going on behind the scenes. Even if there were a remote possibility that something like "shall issue" makes it to the ballot, most Californians would vote against it. The majority will not support it, that is a fact. It seems the way to achieve pro-2A victories in this state is to stay under the radar.

[bohoki]

its so they can deny people even if they are fully qualified

power is never relinquished it must be taken

[mblat]

If 40 states have must issue CCW or close to that, why do we not have it here in CA? Is this something that can get put on a ballot or are we subject to our gun grabbing state legislators and senators to do the deed, which means it will never happen.

We can get it on the ballot if we manage to raise what about a million bucks? However I would think that it would go down in flames. California being what it is - no shall issue CCW bill will pass any time soon. Any best hope is some kind of federal bill or multiple court cases.....

[nicki]

Must issue.

We will not get a "shall issue" through our state legislatures, and I don't think "shall issue" would pass on the ballot in this state.

That being said, I do believe progress can be made, but it will be a ground war in every county.

The reality is that in shall issue states, the issuance rate is roughly 1 to 2 percent of the adult population, the reality is everyone isn't carrying guns.

What this means is ccw is not a large issue, it is a sub issue in regard to gun rights.

California's ccw system may be able to be attacked for "equal protection" violations, but it will be a war.

The Heller case will help on ccw in this and the other non issue states, but it will take some time.



Nicki

[G17GUY]

Whats the million bucks pay for?

[Librarian]

Whats the million bucks pay for?

Darn little.

We'd need a bigger campaign than the Indian Gaming initiatives (94, 95, 97, 97) last February, because CCW is an emotional issue, not a fight between two commercial interests.

The special interests here spent about 70 million in support, 50 million to oppose. See Secretary of State.

[bwiese]

We can get it on the ballot if we manage to raise what about a million bucks?

If it only took $1Mil that'd be a song & a dance.

$75Mil for starters. Ballot propositions are in the big time leagues with big money insurance, tobacco and union issues.

Getting on the ballot is just for a start.
Getting a *chance* of winning after that requires huge numbers of TV & newspaper $ads$.

[N_S]

The problem isn't so much our legislators. California is a one-of-a-kind-case where voters have almost (key word:almost) as much influence as the politicians. If there's a petition and enough signatures we can put just about anything on a ballot.

The problem is convincing the overwhelming left-wing majority in this state to vote for it.

[mblat]

If it only took $1Mil that'd be a song & a dance.

$75Mil for starters. Ballot propositions are in the big time leagues with big money insurance, tobacco and union issues.

Getting on the ballot is just for a start.
Getting a *chance* of winning after that requires huge numbers of TV & newspaper $ads$.

I meant that it would take a million just to get it on the ballot. After that - one can safely assume that union money would go against such proposition and that is probably other 50-75 millions like you said.

[chris]

would'nt a federal reciprocity law be better for us in this state? kind of like a drivers license all drivers licences are honored by all states.

i would tend to think if it was federally mandated to honor them. would it not force this state to recognize them?

[Bad Horse]

would'nt a federal reciprocity law be better for us in this state? kind of like a drivers license all drivers licences are honored by all states.

i would tend to think if it was federally mandated to honor them. would it not force this state to recognize them?

Sure, it would be great. Nancy Pelosi would be happy to bring it to a vote.

I agree it would cost $1m to get on the ballot, and I think it would be impossible to pass, but I don't think there's be nearly as much money against it as some of the posters have written. The Indian gamboling initiatives were about money. The tribes stood to make billions, the Las Vegas casinos stood to loose billions, so they were both ready to spend 10s of millions to support and oppose it.

A CCW initiative would have a lot of emotion, there would be people very worked up about it on both sides. But there wouldn't be a lot of money to be made on either side of it. The gun stores and manufacturers would make a tiny little bit if it passed. Nobody would make more money if it lost (OK, maybe the cops get more overtime from higher crime.)

So I don't think it would be that expensive. But I also think we would fail. I think the best shot we have is through Heller in the federal courts.

[bwiese]

It'll take quite a bit more than $1M to get on the ballot, reliably.

Getting an issue on the ballot in a reliable, professional fashion requires the use of paid signature gatherers spread throughout the state. Additionally, these folks must get (say) 15+% or more extra signatures over the limit just to cover invalid ones, errors, etc. Since there will be challenges from opponents figure on some chunk of $$ for legal support team & their travel costs.

[Gray Peterson]

1 million dollars is better spent on:

1) Fully funding the legal team that'll challenge the BS laws.

2) Unseating anti-gun morons like Don Perata in the primaries

Etc etc etc.

The problem is that California's "gun culture" is anywhere near as strong as the surrounding states, as most of the activists left the state years ago (and there was no Heller on the horizon). Myself, I'd like to see an RKBA proposition a decade from now, after we get anywhere from 1 to 2 million CCW license holders rather than the current 40,000, and legalized loaded open carry statewide, to expose people to the fact that firearms owners are not dangerous terrorists.

[Boxer]

Good thing for us that Columbus wasn't afraid to sail off the edge of the earth. Maybe too soon maybe not, but nothing ventured nothing gained. Will the NRA or CRPA help on this matter?