ATF violates injunction and invades!

[autotraker]

Joe was playing with his shotgun. I think Hitlery was suppressing a laugh.
Are they using Dell computers?

[Chewy65]

Joe was playing with his shotgun. I think Hitlery was suppressing a laugh.
Are they using Dell computers?

I thought what she was watching gave her a tingle that she hadn't felt in a long time - and had nothing to do with Bill.

[goober]

Joe was playing with his shotgun. I think Hitlery was suppressing a laugh.
Are they using Dell computers?

looks more like HP to me...

[LBDamned]

I thought what she was watching gave her a tingle that she hadn't felt in a long time - and had nothing to do with Bill.

it was probably the lesbian porn sitting on her laptop (hard copy - pixeled out)...

[Commiefornia]

Rights come with RESPONSIBILITIES! When someone irresponsibly exercises their "rights", they, ALONG WITH THE REST OF US, have to face the consequences for their irresponsible actions. So, if you really want someone to walk off a pier, it would be the MORONS who are supporting the irresponsible actions of a few. Hope you can swim.

The UOCers were doing NOTHING irresponsible. They were abiding by California law that ALLOWS unloaded open carry & showing others that gun owners are responsible, law-abiding people and not a bunch of Rambos. Believe it or not I have a friend I took the range for her first time and she remarked that everyone looked normal. This from an open-minded person who I thought would never stereotype or have ill-conceived notions of things she's never experienced.

I never joined in the UOCers, but I understood and supported what they were doing.

Then they get criticized by "pro 2nd Amendment" people here of rocking the boat because hoplophobic lawmakers will pass more gun control laws. Let me tell you something. They will never stop trying to pass more control with or without the UOCers doing their thing. AWB, was that because of UOCers? Bullet buttons, was that because of UOCers? OAL of 30" instead of the federal 26"? 30 day limit on buying handguns? Handgun roster? Off list lowers? Microstamping? They don't NEED an excuse like UOCers or Ares to pass anti-gun, anti 2nd Amendment laws. The only excuse they need is their own stupidity....and people like you who pull down their pants and bend over when another anti-gun, anti 2nd Amendment laws passes.

I'm not talking about starting an armed revolution. I'm talking about having some "cashews", as Larry Elder puts it, and doing what the people in CT, NY, and NJ are doing, standing up to these idiots that want to pass laws banning ".30 caliber magazine clips".

Gun Owners: "Will Not Comply" with Unreasonable Registration

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/julianrossetti/2014/03/23/gun-owners-will-not-comply-with-unreasonable-registration-n1812772?utm_source=thdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl

[Chewy65]

The UOCers were doing NOTHING irresponsible. They were abiding by California law that ALLOWS unloaded open carry & showing others that gun owners are responsible, law-abiding people and not a bunch of Rambos. Believe it or not I have a friend I took the range for her first time and she remarked that everyone looked normal. This from an open-minded person who I thought would never stereotype or have ill-conceived notions of things she's never experienced.

Ask your open minded friend if she thinks that grown folk walking about in public with pistols in holsters look normal and than ask yourself if unloaded open carry injures the public image of the gun rights movement.

One other thing. Wasn't uoc made illegal as of January 1, 2012?

You asked if certain gun laws were passed because of the UOC carriers. Did you ever consider that UOC was outlawed in response to the UOC movement?

[DRH]

I don't think anyone had an issue with people exerising their rights and open carrying. People have done that for a very long time. It was when they started to organize events designed for media attention like at Starbucks or at the beach that the exposure caused issues. Had one or two people carried into a Starbucks most people would think they were leos and not look twice. When 25 people show up for no other reason than because the can and they call the media a head of time, it caused problems. It was legal and they had every right to do it but there were consequences from those actions that affected everyone.

The personal exemption to the gun control act that we are discussing here is similar. There were no issues until the marketing to the masses caused unwanted exposure (ghost guns). I see threads pop up almost everyday with people trying to figure out how to get their paperweight finished. They had no inclination or desire to actually build a gun themselves but purchased a 80% lower to get a gun with no serial number or transfer paperwork because the idea was sold to them. While I understand and agree with the the reasons for.wanting a paperless gun and it is completely legal if done via the current regulations, to think that the government is going to allow an exemption to turn into a loophole and become the norm for AR acquisition, invalidating the gun control act, is naive. When it started to head towards becoming the norm and not the exception government action was eminent. So far we have state restrictions looming but no outright ban or federal action. I am hoping that the investigation does not uncover any substantial prohibited person acquisitions, because that would put even the most progun congressman in a tough spot on possible up coming legislation.

[wizzbane]

I don't think anyone had an issue with people exerising their rights and open carrying. People have done that for a very long time. It was when they started to organize events designed for media attention like at Starbucks or at the beach that the exposure caused issues. Had one or two people carried into a Starbucks most people would think they were leos and not look twice. When 25 people show up for no other reason than because the can and they call the media a head of time, it caused problems. It was legal and they had every right to do it but there were consequences from those actions that affected everyone.

The personal exemption to the gun control act that we are discussing here is similar. There were no issues until the marketing to the masses caused unwanted exposure (ghost guns). I see threads pop up almost everyday with people trying to figure out how to get their paperweight finished. They had no inclination or desire to actually build a gun themselves but purchased a 80% lower to get a gun with no serial number or transfer paperwork because the idea was sold to them. While I understand and agree with the the reasons for.wanting a paperless gun and it is completely legal if done via the current regulations, to think that the government is going to allow an exemption to turn into a loophole and become the norm for AR acquisition, invalidating the gun control act, is naive. When it started to head towards becoming the norm and not the exception government action was eminent. So far we have state restrictions looming but no outright ban or federal action. I am hoping that the investigation does not uncover any substantial prohibited person acquisitions, because that would put even the most progun congressman in a tough spot on possible up coming legislation.

Spoken like a liberal .... following the law isn't a loophole it is the law. So guess if law says the speedlimit is 65 and I do 64 to avoid a speeding ticket by your reasioning I'm exploiting the speed loophole.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

[wizzbane]

Ask your open minded friend if she thinks that grown folk walking about in public with pistols in holsters look normal and than ask yourself if unloaded open carry injures the public image of the gun rights movement.

One other thing. Wasn't uoc made illegal as of January 1, 2012?

You asked if certain gun laws were passed because of the UOC carriers. Did you ever consider that UOC was outlawed in response to the UOC movement?

And that ou tlaw is the basis for san diego sheriffs defer in the 9th circuit. So I'm glad they did exercise their right and followed the law. With "friends" like these who need enemys

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

[Wiz-of-Awd]

Spoken like a liberal .... following the law isn't a loophole it is the law. So guess if law says the speedlimit is 65 and I do 64 to avoid a speeding ticket by your reasioning I'm exploiting the speed loophole.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

Driving the speed limit is hardly a controversial issue as is gun control.

There are smart ways to exercise one's rights and there are "in your face, look at me" ways.

One works for you within the law.
The other sets you up for eventual failure.

Pick one.

A.W.D.

[Uxi]

Exercising your right at all sets you up for failure. Not that it was an option for many/most of us anyway either locked within unmarked interlocking victim disarmament zones and the example of Theseus.

[DRH]

Spoken like a liberal .... following the law isn't a loophole it is the law. So guess if law says the speedlimit is 65 and I do 64 to avoid a speeding ticket by your reasioning I'm exploiting the speed loophole.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

Actually I'm probably closest to a libertarian. I was not endorsing either side on the issue merely trying to point out why we are where we are now. I personally believe we should not have any gun laws at all, zero, nada. My beliefs are very far from our current reality and that is what we have to deal with, not idealistic absolutes such as my own personal beliefs.

Unfortunately for home builders, the legislative bodies and agencies that regulate and control what is legal and what is not legal will change or remove outright the exemption in an effort to prohibit mass quantities of firearms from legally being produced outside the requirements of the gun control act. It is causality, cause and effect, at play which is nothing new or unexpected.

No one did anything wrong or illegal with the open carry movement either. They just exercised their right until the right was removed, its not how it is supposed to work but it is our reality and we have to deal with it until we can change that reality one way or the other.

[Chewy65]

And that ou tlaw is the basis for san diego sheriffs defer in the 9th circuit. So I'm glad they did exercise their right and followed the law. With "friends" like these who need enemys

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

The unexpected way the outlawing of UOC law backfired is more than amusing, but my point is that the demonstrators indeed provoked the passage of anti-gun legislation. Still, we don't know if the Peruta holding based on the resultant legislative scheme will hold up on further appeal.

[wizzbane]

2 things my point is sick and tired of liberal code word of loophole just like thr phantom gunshow loophole which anybody with a brain or non liberal is a bs phrase there is no loophole just the law which is the same in the gunshow or at a freinds house..... but keep using liberal terms...


And second guess you think rosa parks was wrong to be "in your face" and shouldd have just stayed in the back or the bus.... unless you are going to try to say rosa parks didn't represent anything controversial

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

[=Mike=]

No one did anything wrong or illegal with the open carry movement either.

So you agree that Ares my not have done anything wrong?

They just exercised their right until the right was removed

And that taught many of you a lesson, didnt it.

I felt the same way about the open carry. Knew what was going to happen. But I would never condemn them, for the actions of the ones who wright supposed "law".

its not how it is supposed to work but it is our reality and we have to deal with it until we can change that reality one way or the other.

And then there are those who thy to change that reality "one way", opposed to "the other", then accuse those who support it of trying to start "the other" while pushing fear of a lost right, and fear of atf.

Many gun owning liberals after obamas attempt to take them, now call themselves libertarian.