CCW and airports

[emc002]

Allow me to clarify my question.

I am specifically asking about loaded, concealed handgun carry by a person (me) with a California CCW (with no restrictions denoted by the issuing ageny) within and around a public airport located in California.

Oh, and I don't need opinions as to whether or not it is a "good idea"...just responses from those knowledgable of the revelant laws.

Thanks,

Sawdust

If there are no restrictions by your issuing agency (clearly you're not an Orange County Resident, thus I'm guessing San Bernadino) then you are GTG in unrestricted areas of the airport...
UNLESS it is posted anywhere on the airport property prohibiting the possession of firearms. IRRC, it is posted ALL OVER John Wayne and LAX, thus you cannot carry, even with a CCW, anywhere on those airports' property.
If it is a small muni-airport, the restrictions are usually much less stringet with no "sterile" areas and they ususally don't have any postings (at least when I fly I've not seen any).

[tango-52]

How can a municipality legislate away the states authority as granted in 12050 and the exemptions to other state possession/loaded laws?

I understand the "I don't want to be a test case" crowd, but as a matter of law I don't understand your position stated above when viewed against implied preemption and the supremacy of state legislation on a specific topic; particulary a PC 12050 handgun license and exemptions.

It is my understanding that the state law specifically does not preempt in the area of municipal airport authority.

[emc002]

How can a municipality legislate away the states authority as granted in 12050 and the exemptions to other state possession/loaded laws?

If by municipality you mean issuaing agency... then because issuing authority is granted/delegated to the municipalities by the state. Thus they can place reasonable restrictions on the use of the CCW permits they issue.
(I'm not talking about issuance restrictions here, just use restrictions.)

E.g. The state exempts valid CCW permit holders from prohibitions on carrying on school property, but County A (in which I live) won't let you CCW on "school property" while County B (a neighboring county no less) places no such restriction on the permit.

If by municipality you mean other governmental entities, then they can place specific restrictions on their property just like any private property owner can and prohibit you carrying on their private property.

[6172crew]

Ca. PC 12050 licenses don't come with legislated restrictions. That is left up to the issuing authority and must be "resonable" (Issuing Agency = head of municiple police dept., police chief, or sheriff). DOJ types like to invent restrictions (which exceeds their authority) on the state application form called "conditions of license".

Not to highjack this tread but NV law cant be undone by local restrictions...I dont know the PC but the law I quoted was a state law...somehow the LV area has some extra BS about reporting firearms but the CCW guy giving the class said it was BS and to ignore it. LV law is pretty easy to remember...no .gov building, no airports, and dont be drunk.

[Liberty1]

It is my understanding that the state law specifically does not preempt in the area of municipal airport authority.

I'd be interested in reading the citation; could just be in the area of business & zoning regs and the like, but I doubt an airport authority could supersede state penal code. That's a new one for me, would love to learn the specifics if you can cite.

[Liberty1]

Not to highjack this tread but NV law cant be undone by local restrictions...I dont know the PC but the law I quoted was a state law...somehow the LV area has some extra BS about reporting firearms but the CCW guy giving the class said it was BS and to ignore it. LV law is pretty easy to remember...no .gov building, no airports, and dont be drunk.

Yes NV has near total state preemption on the subject of firearm. I believe that just happened late last year.

[Liberty1]

If by municipality you mean other governmental entities...

This is what I meant.

[spsellars]

UNLESS it is posted anywhere on the airport property prohibiting the possession of firearms. IRRC, it is posted ALL OVER John Wayne and LAX, thus you cannot carry, even with a CCW, anywhere on those airports' property.

Do you happen to have a cite for this? I was taught that outside of those places specifically prohibited in the P.C., "No Weapons" signs hold as much authority as "Have a Nice Day" signs. (i.e. irrelevant until they ask you to leave.)

[CCWFacts]

people go into irrational mode in airports.

They sure do! Gee, the non-sterile areas of an airport are nothing different from, say, the non-sterile areas of an office building or a shopping mall or whatever. It's just a big public building.

I would certainly CCW in the non-sterile areas, provided it was allowed by the issuing authority and by law. Why not?

[tango-52]

Do you happen to have a cite for this? I was taught that outside of those places specifically prohibited in the P.C., "No Weapons" signs hold as much authority as "Have a Nice Day" signs. (i.e. irrelevant until they ask you to leave.)

As I stated previously, municipalities may establish their own regulations (laws) for airport property that they operate. Here is the cite from California Government Code:

50474. In connection with the erection, improvement, expansion, or
maintenance of such airports or facilities, a local agency may:
(a) Regulate the receipt, deposit, and removal, and the
embarkation or debarkation of passengers or property to and from such
landing places or moorage.
(b) Exact charges, fees, and tolls, and enforce liens for their
payment.
(c) Lease or assign for operation any space and any necessary or
useful appurtenances, appliances, or other conveniences.
(d) Own and operate aircraft.
(e) Employ pilots.
(f) Regulate the use of the airport and facilities and other
property or means of transportation within or over the airport.
(g) Perform any duties necessary or convenient for the regulation
of air traffic.
(h) Enter into contracts or otherwise cooperate with the federal
government or other public or private agencies.
(i) Exercise powers necessary or convenient in the promotion of
aeronautics and commerce and navigation by air.


The two clauses I highlighted are sufficient for the local agency to establish whether CCW will be permitted on airport grounds. Now, many probably haven't considered it and may not have adopted a regulation regarding it. Probably not a problem if you are picking someone up curbside. But I would check before CCWing in the airport outside the secure area.

Thus, state CCW laws may not preempt local regulations at airports because state law give the locals the authority there. I am not aware of any other areas where the local laws would prevail.

[spsellars]

[I]50474. In connection with the erection, improvement, expansion, or maintenance of such airports or facilities, a local agency may

I'm not sure I see the connection here... How does CCW fall within the scope of erection, improvement, expansion, or maintenance of said airports and/or facilities?

[NiteQwill]

Try it and see what happens. At least in OC, OCSD will pull your permit if they find out you carried into John Wayne curbside. I have to find the OC muni code about loaded firearms on airport property... I'll post back.

[tango-52]

I'm not sure I see the connection here... How does CCW fall within the scope of erection, improvement, expansion, or maintenance of said airports and/or facilities?

Read the bolded subparagraphs. This is about operation of the facility too. The state has given local agencies the authority to regulate all activity at the airport:

(f) Regulate the use of the airport and facilities and other
property or means of transportation within or over the airport.

(i) Exercise powers necessary or convenient in the promotion of
aeronautics and commerce and navigation by air.

[spsellars]

Try it and see what happens. At least in OC, OCSD will pull your permit if they find out you carried into John Wayne curbside. I have to find the OC muni code about loaded firearms on airport property... I'll post back.

If you find it, please do cite it, I found nothing after a cursory search of lexisnexis.com.

OC apparently does place such restrictions on the CCW itself, but that would not prevent someone with a CCW issued in another county (with no such restriction) from carrying in their airports. (Unless this elusive law can be found, of course.)

[jamesob]

citations please

i can't help you with citations but i can tell you how you can find out quick. you will find your answer in lax, but you have to carry concealed.