Cal gunowners need backbone

[Benellishooter]

Thanks to the DOJ memo of the week, so many of the Calguns "off-list" lower owners are scrambling for muzzlebrakes and special non-pistol grips.

Their memo means nothing.

If you have a bolted in fixed mag, your gun can not accept a detachable mag. Plain and simple. They can try to define "capacity to accept" all they want. But, they are wrong.

I can define Rosie O'Donnell to be a Victoria Secret supermodel all I want. But, that don't make it so.

P.S. Next week when they send out their new memo your gun needs to be hot pink, will all of you scramble to Walmart for spray paint?

[Jedi]

P.S. Next week when they send out their new memo your gun needs to be hot pink, will all of you scramble to Walmart for spray paint?

Yes! I will also include "Hello Kitty" in place of my "Superior Arms" logo.

[Satex]

[Benellishooter]

I am going out Saturday with my collapsible stocked, flash suppressor, 10 round bolted in magazine off list AR style rifle this weekend.

Sometimes you just have to stand your ground.

I will carry a copy of the laws in a binder. I stand more of a chance of getting abducted by aliens than having a cop stop me and debate me about the "capacity to accept a detachable magazine". Heck, 99 out of 100 cops probably don't even know about the whole off list lower thing to begin with.

No jury will convict you for not bolting in your magazine the approved way. I am tired of living in fear. I am going to shoot my rifle the way I know it is legal.

[Bling Bling 2.0]

Well look at the stakes. Are you ready to never be able to own a firearm again if this thing makes it through the screwed up legal system? Do you have that much faith in our justice system? I agree about your point and the memo is just a memo and it's WEAK position. But I'm not willing to go to jail if even for a day. Remember local DA's see us as more dangerous than violent criminals, illegal immigrants, rapists, and child molestors combined. They will stop at nothing to try and take away our rights. There are other things we can do to help our cause.

If you feel comfortable in your position, I commend you on your bravery and pride. But I won't be touching my lowers until the weather changes. Too much risk for too little gain.

[Benellishooter]

Bling, I would respectfully submit to you that you are already "in jail". I am willing to take all the above risks to exercise my legal rights.

[Unknownassailant]

If we wanted to play it safe, we'd get out of shooting altogether and sell all our guns. For some of us thats not an option, and shooting our fixed mag off-listed lowers is the line we're willing to walk, for better or for worse.

[CALI-gula]

Bling, I would respectfully submit to you that you are already "in jail". I am willing to take all the above risks to exercise my legal rights.

I don't think it is as big a risk as you might think; I have been taking my Roberti-Roos/SB23 items (and not all are rifles) to several shooting ranges for several years, and have never been asked by anyone for documentation or whether they are legally owned, registered or anything else. That lack of inquisition is the norm, and neither range officers or police officers, LEO or otherwise have ever cared, even when they are present.

Most often LEO just look from afar with a "hey, that's cool" grin; the closest I came to a one-on-one exchange while my AW items were with me at the range, was when an LEO whom I saw at the range shooting a couple of 1911s while I was shooting my AW stuff. I think he was a LA Sheriff - uniform looked like it, could have been CHP. I had already put back my "AW" items in their cases, and had moved on to shooting my Super Six Limited (not a Ruger) .45-70 six-shot revolver, before leaving for the day. He walked over between my reloading, and while he did NOT ask to see my AW items, he was more fascinated by my Super Six Limited. So, I let him shoot 6 cartridges out of it and he thought it was great. I gave him the run-down on it, history of the company and who made it, etc., then we then talked more about his guns than mine.

While I am there with my "AW" items, I am usually in the company of several other shooters at the line or in their stall with their Roberti-Roos/SB23 items. It's hardly any risk at all. It has become very commonplace and nobody cares.

I think Benellishooter is right; don't contain yourself to a self-made jail. Nothing has actually changed with the law, and the memo changes nothing. Carry on! Be bold! I think it is our best approach to go with the law as we have interpreted "fixed magazine" and influence as many LEO (should they ask) to see the logic and permanence of our interpretation of "fixed magazine" so they become comfortable, in full acceptance, and aligned with our rational thought with the permanence of the Bolt-type conversions to lock in the magazines. Overexpose them to rational thought and real world tangibility as opposed to their being influenced by some desk-wart mold pontificating from his mahogany block but having no useful real-world knowledge of firearms, a one Mr. Bill Lockyer.


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[tenpercentfirearms]

For those of you in occupied territory, I don't necessarily blame you. However, I live in Kern County. I will not be being prosecuted by my DA over this. I know the law and I am following it. This new memo is just like the last memo, full of more holes than swiss cheese. Stand up for your rights and rest assured, the first test case will get a lot of financial backing from a whole lot of lower owners.

[LOW2000]

Is there actually an AW registry that LEO's can check to see if your serial number is in, or can they only check to see if the weapon is legally owned by you?

[Forever-A-Soldier]

I agree with Benellishooter; it has always amazed me how so many gun owners (on this board and others) fret the littlest things. Even the rules here about not posting anything illegal, I question. Now I'm not saying go ahead and turn a weapon into full auto and wreck havoc and destruction. No I'm talking about just plain old "civil disobedience." Liberals, leftists, illegals, etc. jump at the chance to thumb their noses at the LAW and they get away with it 99% of the time. But for some reasons gun owners hide like little mice when confronted by possible legal problems. I for one have NOT registered all my AWs: some I moved out of state, some I've GPS'd out in the desert and others are converted based upon the law. Diversify, Diversify, Diversify as any investor will tell you. I NEVER keep all my eggs in one basket and that goes for guns too! I'm sick and tired of this communist state forcing their ubsurd rules and regs. I've tried to comply, I really have, but the time has come where I can't do it anymore.

What are all of you going to do when they outlaw handguns? Then a couple of years later we are like Washington DC? When are you going to draw the line? Now I know that everyone has a different limit. Some will say that I give in too much. That may be true, but I think I've come to a good point. California will never get all of my guns no matter what 'cause their juristiction ends at the border. Having been on the "gun search and seize" end in Iraq, I know how DIFFICULT it is. (And subsequently I know just how to hide them too! )

Gun owners in California need to make a stand and say, "Screw the anti-gunners I'm drawing the line TODAY! " I'm going to take my legal "registered" AWs and my fixed mag ARs to the range and shoot them. Plain and simple. If a cop wants to arrest me because HE/SHE [I]thinks/I] they know what the law is, well so be it. I'm asking for a public defender, and an extention and everything else to cost this state as much money for them to run their justice system to try and convict a decorated war vet with NO CRIMINAL RECORD for exercising his U.S. constitutional rights. If the DA has that much of a hardon to spend his/her time trying to convict ME instead of child molestors, rapists, robbers, killers, etc. then this State is more screwed up than we can imagine.

We can't get any of us to agree on what the law says exactly about Off-List lowers, fixed or non-fixed mags, etc.... you think they'll find 12 jurors to find me guilty of a confusing and poorly written law? I don't think so. It's not worth cops time, the DAs time, the States time or my time. Imagine if 30,000 of us did this?

Take a lead from the Civil Rights movement and grow some "Nuts" people. Be a Patriot and say, "ENOUGH!"

F.A.S. Out

[Omega13device]

No one has ever asked me about my SB23 reg'd rifle, and I've seen plenty of people at the ranges with pinned mags and nobody has ever bothered them either. When I get my lowers built up I will be taking them to the range too. If you think LEOs have time to worry about some stupid definition for a detachable mag then you are being ultra paranoid.

[30Cal]

. Some of us cannot afford a criminal process on our records - it will affect our work/lives in unacceptable ways.

FWIW, they don't need a memo to introduce you to the criminal process. If a LEO want's to rain on your parade, it's probably going to happen.

[CALI-gula]

No one has ever asked me about my SB23 reg'd rifle, and I've seen plenty of people at the ranges with pinned mags and nobody has ever bothered them either. When I get my lowers built up I will be taking them to the range too. If you think LEOs have time to worry about some stupid definition for a detachable mag then you are being ultra paranoid.

As I wrote the same, and second that! I say continue on, as normal, since the memo changes nothing about SB23. Let's further influence the LEO to accept OUR prevailing definition of "fixed magazine". Let's be as visible as possible with our "pinned" magazines. Large numbers are overwhelming and can influence a definition to our liking. Eventually feedback will get back to the DOJ that their attempt to nullify pinned magazines as being "fixed magazines" is futile, and the permanence we have in mind will overrule.

[CowtownBallin]

That is why I hope the NRA or CRPA will take this issue up with the DOJ.

Satex, I'm not directing this at you, but at people with this mentality.

Here's the problem. You'd like to enjoy your full gun rights but are unwilling to sacrifice anything for them. You want someone else to fight your battle for you and win. Sure, the NRA and CRPA are here to help, but that doesn't mean the rest of us should bury our heads in the sand and hope for the best.

If doing some work is too much to ask, then maybe you should reconsider being a gun-owner and pick up something less demanding, like skiing or boating. Get on the horn with your local representatives, donate money to the CRPA, write letters, do something other than complain on gun forums. Just like they say, if you don't vote, you can't complain. Same applies here, if you did nothing, you deserve whatever you get, and nothing more.